Rob Ford's Toronto

[allabootmatt]

Or progressives could, you know, vote for Chow.

I'll never vote for Tory, largely because of the reasons mjl08 so clearly enumerates. Tory is a four-time losing back-room party hack with no civic politics experience who seemingly had his roots in the sensible Red Tory tradition, but then embraced the looney social conservative wing when he ran for Premier, and seemingly continues to espouse this approach. He's at best a phoney and panderer, and at worst yet another knee-jerk conservative.

No thank you. I'll take the alleged "socialist" who actually sat on Toronto city council for a decade making the city work over Tory.

This is the kind of view that makes me find it very hard to believe the left will refrain from running a strong candidate, leaving the field open for Tory. For better or worse, there WILL be a left-wing candidate--I'd be very surprised if the large NDP contingent in the city would break with past practice in this regard. Let's not forget the left in Toronto didn't even get fully behind Miller (!) in 2003.

 

[Silence&Motion]

Or progressives could, you know, vote for Chow.

I'll never vote for Tory, largely because of the reasons mjl08 so clearly enumerates. Tory is a four-time losing back-room party hack with no civic politics experience who seemingly had his roots in the sensible Red Tory tradition, but then embraced the looney social conservative wing when he ran for Premier, and seemingly continues to espouse this approach. He's at best a phoney and panderer, and at worst yet another knee-jerk conservative.

No thank you. I'll take the alleged "socialist" who actually sat on Toronto city council for a decade making the city work over Tory.

My original post about progressives not having someone to vote for was in response to the suggestion made earlier that Chow might step aside to let Tory run (which I find hard to believe). If Tory is who passes for a "progressive candidate" in Toronto these days, then we're in big trouble. Sure, he supports transit expansion, but he'd most definitely put a Board of Trade, pro-business agenda ahead of a social justice agenda. I'd wait to hear his platform, but I doubt I could support him.

 

[Torontovibe]

^^ That's exactly the same way I feel about Tory. He is a follower, not a leader, and I would never vote for him.

 

[syn]

Right, and if you look at the 2012 Operating Budget table, you'll see that this claim comes from the comparison of the Total Levy Operating Budget, which notes a reduction from the 2011 budget figure it offers of 0.2%. If you think this a one-fifth of one percent reduction is significant, you're welcome to tout that figure as gospel.

However, when one does an apples-to-apples comparison, that decrease actually vanishes. The number the 2012 table gives for the 2011 approved budget is 9,409,056.4, but the number given in the equivalent 2011 budget table is 9,382,869.1. This figure is actually less than the comparable 2012 figure of 9,389,954.2, meaning that, by this comparison, the 2012 budget was actually $7 million more than the exactly comparable 2011 amount. And things get even dicier when we look at the 2013 budget table, which has the 2012 budget at 9,417,784.7, higher than the number in the 2012 table, and certainly higher than either figure for the comparable 2011 amount. In other words, those comparisons show an increase in 2012, and not a decline.

(Of course, you can see this as well in the listed budget summaries that I linked to originally -- 2011 says that that "the 2011 tax supported 2011 Operating Budget is $9.383 billion", and 2012 states that "City Council approved a balanced tax-supported 2012 Operating Budget of $9.4 billion". By any math I do, 9.4 is bigger than 9.383, not smaller.)

That 2013 table also has something interesting: by the same comparison in 2012 that claimed a budget decline, the 2013 numbers show an increase from 2012 by, yep, 0.2%.

Now, I am not an accountant, and there may things I'm missing here. But on a straightforward reading of the figures, it sure seems to me that the claim "He did put out a budget smaller than the year before" is a) at best only technically true and represents no major decline, b) is incorrect when later figures are used and direct apples-to-apples comparisons are made, which themselves show an increase in 2012, and c) is wrong when one looks at this year, where there was an increase that matched percentage-wise the best claim for a decrease the year previous.

Anyone with a greater understanding of city finances is welcome to correct me.

This is a solid analysis, unfortunately Ford's base (and perhaps the slightly more moderate supporters who're still around) will never look at things in this much detail. He can say whatever he likes and people will believe it.

 

[arvelomcquaig]

What? He did put out a budget smaller than the year before.

Do you get your information from the Fords’ mouths? This is well-known to be completely false, as demonstrated in detail here.

 

[arvelomcquaig]

I will never vote for Tory not because he's a follower or because of his personality or because he's lost too many elections, but because he's right-wing. Many of you seem to be resigning yourselves to another right-wing mayor to avoid Ford, which is astonishing and depressing. Have you not heard about the multiple polls that indicated Chow would do better than Ford? Why do you think a left-wing candidate is so impossible to get elected? And even if Chow's election was unlikely, I'd never stoop to such a nadir of civic cynicism that I'd vote for a right-winger to avoid an ultra right-winger.

 

[Silence&Motion]

From: https://twitter.com/GraphicMatt

It's crazy. The approval rating in the suburbs (particularly North York) seems to move in the exact opposite direction of the approval rating downtown. The more we hate Ford, the more they love him! Ford exists as a negation of everything that urbanites stand for. He's like the realization of Mike Harris's original plan when he imposed amalgamation: to destroy urban Toronto as a political entity.

(Yes I'm biased here)

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I will never vote for Tory not because he's a follower or because of his personality or because he's lost too many elections, but because he's right-wing. Many of you seem to be resigning yourselves to another right-wing mayor to avoid Ford, which is astonishing and depressing. Have you not heard about the multiple polls that indicated Chow would do better than Ford? Why do you think a left-wing candidate is so impossible to get elected? And even if Chow's election was unlikely, I'd never stoop to such a nadir of civic cynicism that I'd vote for a right-winger to avoid an ultra right-winger.

I'd much rather have Chow than Tory run. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter. I'll be voting for whoever Laschinger decides to run.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Or progressives could, you know, vote for Chow.

I'll never vote for Tory, largely because of the reasons mjl08 so clearly enumerates. Tory is a four-time losing back-room party hack with no civic politics experience who seemingly had his roots in the sensible Red Tory tradition, but then embraced the looney social conservative wing when he ran for Premier, and seemingly continues to espouse this approach. He's at best a phoney and panderer, and at worst yet another knee-jerk conservative.

No thank you. I'll take the alleged "socialist" who actually sat on Toronto city council for a decade making the city work over Tory.

Like I've said before, I don't particularly like Tory and I want Chow to win. But if it comes down to voting for Tory and handing Ford a loss or voting for Chow and handing Ford a victory, I'll be voting for Tory. Hopefully it wont have tp gp down that way since Tory generally doesn't win elections. Ranked ballots couldn't come soon enough.

 

[spider]

No one works harder than John Tory in a business, political or public charity environment, I admire these attributes to the point of being jealous of his efforts and abilities but not to the point of voting for him because of them. In balance he has never known poverty or been pressed to avoid it, he was born with the proverbial silver spoon in his mouth and was thus deprived of the struggle most of us have known and survived. He is much more personable than Bob, Jack and Justin but suffers from the same "insulated from us" attitude without realizing it, I can't vote for him because he doesn't know me or my thoughts on anything. For instance his thoughts on separate schools were so off the wall and yet he couldn't understand that, what's next?

Will I vote for Rob Ford again? I don't know, do you have a better candidate or does bashing him feel so good that you are not even looking?

 

[Tulse]

What qualities would you consider a good candidate to have, spider?

 

[VTB]

In balance he has never known poverty or been pressed to avoid it, he was born with the proverbial silver spoon in his mouth and was thus deprived of the struggle most of us have known and survived. He is much more personable than Bob, Jack and Justin but suffers from the same "insulated from us" attitude without realizing it, I can't vote for him because he doesn't know me or my thoughts on anything.

I am confused. Wouldn't this same description apply even more to Rob Ford? At least Tory held down very high level executive positions outside of the family business. Outside of his stint as City Councillor and a short stay at Deco, Rob has not, to my knowldege, held down anything else. I stand corrected.

 

[JWBF]

^^ That's exactly the same way I feel about Tory. He is a follower, not a leader, and I would never vote for him.

I personally am waiting to see the respective campaigns before deciding. City and municipal politics have, or should have, a different dynamic to it's leadership than party politics. And with all good leaders, they first have to learn to follow. Working well with taking advice, and opinions from Toronto counsel are essential to running Toronto properly.

I want to see Chow, Tory, Ford, and others toss their perverbial hat in the ring, that's what makes "demorcacy" fun. And hopefully voters will ask questions, and vote accordingly on their informed opinions.

 

[MetroMan]

Well, Adam Giambrone is attempting a comeback. He's the NDP candidate for the Scarborough-Guildwood by-election. That's right: Scarborough. I wrote some pages back that I was hearing rumblings of Giambrone running again in the next election and this may be his intro. Will he win in Scarborough? Doubtful, but he'll be setting the legwork for the 2014 election.

I'm conflicted as to whether I want him to run. On one hand, in retrospect I don't think he would have won in 2010 and stands an even smaller chance this time around. On the other hand, a full slate of candidates in the beginning of the campaign might be a good thing. It promotes a real debate, shows that there's choice and allows for a 2 man race to emerge. Who knows, Ford might not even be one of the two!

 

[RC8]

In balance he has never known poverty or been pressed to avoid it, he was born with the proverbial silver spoon in his mouth and was thus deprived of the struggle most of us have known and survived.

You mean... like Ford?