Rob Ford's Toronto

[Tulse]

Someone who supports increasing taxes, profligate spending on social programs, a redistribution of wealth to raise the safety net far above where it currently sits at the expense of hard working higher income earners and taxpayers. Also someone who bends to every union demand.

Right, so you clearly don't even know what the term "socialist" means, much less what political positions would be to the "left" of it (Trotskyism? Maoism? Stalinism?)

Words have actual meanings, you know -- they're not just tribal identifiers.

 

[Ramako]

Someone who supports increasing taxes, profligate spending on social programs, a redistribution of wealth to raise the safety net far above where it currently sits at the expense of hard working higher income earners and taxpayers. Also someone who bends to every union demand.

Just off the cuff thoughts before I have to head into a long meeting.

So I'm just connecting the dots here... According to you increasing taxes, increasing spending on social programs, raising the safety net and being union-friendly is literally communism?

 

[christiesplits]

Chow is undoubtedly the left's strongest contender. She will have crossover appeal in a way that an Adam Vaughan or Gord Perks would not have. She would likely appeal to pockets of North Toronto for her civic mindedness and pockets of Scarborough and North York for her story as an immigrant. Keep in mind the suburbs are not necessarily hostile to left wing politics. Miller got re-elected in every suburban riding in 2006 and the NDP won a number of federal seats in Scarborough and York last election.

As far as character flaws, her rap sheet as an MP is as vanilla as ice cream. I could see the Fords bringing up the repeatedly debunked "Laytons living in subsidized housing in the 80s" case, however given how much of a hot potato the TCHC will be in 2014, he might be best to avoid it. Also, I believe there was some muttering in the right wing press about Layton and Chow using both of their housing allowance salaries for one Ottawa apartment which is perfectly legal and standard among past MP couples.

I would not be surprised if Ford uses the "No business experience" pitch which is a fairly standard conservative plank. Also Chow has a Fine Arts degree from the University of Guelph which would play perfect into the Ford machine's "Pinko Toronto elite" attacks.

 

[nfitz]

"Laytons living in subsidized housing in the 80s" case, however given how much of a hot potato the TCHC will be in 2014, he might me best to avoid it.

Think how much better housing would be if many councillors lived in TCHC housing!

Though I'm not aware that Chow ever did ... it was a non-City owned co-op wasn't it?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tulse:

Well, I think one might have us mistaken for Fordist (!!) automatons who respond to every soundbite. If it sounds good, it must be true!

AoD

 

[guitarchitect]

I know everyone is dying to know my views, particularly AoD so here they are:

In a race between Chow and a former but not current crack user Rob Ford I'd vote Ford.

In a race between Chow and a current crack user Rob Ford I'd vote for the Libertarian candidate.

Give me Tory or his equivalent and I'll not only vote but campaign for him

Nobody even has a platform yet. That you'd already decide who to vote for tells me a lot about your thought process.

Regarding your "left of socialist" statement, I'll just leave this here. Read it.

 

[Tulse]

I think one might have us mistaken for Fordist (!!) automatons who respond to every soundbite. If it sounds good, it must be true!

I know, but it depresses me to see words that have actual meaning, and could be used in rational, meaningful debate, reduced to nothing more than an outgroup insult. It's the worst of tribal politics, where nothing matters but what your group affiliation is.

If only there were a Godwin's Law equivalent for the use of "socialist" in Canadian political discourse...

 

[Gavin]

Someone who supports increasing taxes, profligate spending on social programs, a redistribution of wealth to raise the safety net far above where it currently sits at the expense of hard working higher income earners and taxpayers. Also someone who bends to every union demand.

Just off the cuff thoughts before I have to head into a long meeting.

Well at least you agree that you clearly didn't give this much thought.

 

[CN Tower]

Nobody even has a platform yet. That you'd already decide who to vote for tells me a lot about your thought process.

Regarding your "left of socialist" statement, I'll just leave this here. Read it.

Perhaps I misspoke. She's just a run of the mill socialist I suppose:

Eat your words guitar

North America[edit]

In Canada, the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation, the precursor to the New Democratic Party, had some significant success in provincial politics. In 1944, the Saskatchewan CCF formed the first socialist government in North America. On the federal level, the social democratic New Democratic Party now forms the Official Opposition after winning 103/308 seats[187] (up from 37) in the 2011 Canadian federal election.

 

[Tulse]

So because the Saskatchewan CCF was "socialist" seventy years ago, Olivia Chow is a socialist now?

 

[someMidTowner]

Look what we have here:

http://www.thegridto.com/blog-post/dixon-road-post-raid-project-led-by-old-friend-of-the-fords/

 

[guitarchitect]

Perhaps I misspoke. She's just a run of the mill socialist I suppose:

In Canada, the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation, the precursor to the New Democratic Party, had some significant success in provincial politics. In 1944, the Saskatchewan CCF formed the first socialist government in North America. On the federal level, the social democratic New Democratic Party now forms the Official Opposition after winning 103/308 seats[187] (up from 37) in the 2011 Canadian federal election.

OK, I see the problem here - you don't actually understand the difference between Socialism and a Social Democracy, do you?

 

[syn]

I think that it will actually lead a lot of moderate voters to stay away on election day. A lot of people who voted for Ford last time will not vote for him again, but they probably won't do a complete 180 and vote for someone who is really to the left. If it were a 2-way race between Ford and Chow, I'd expect that voter turnout would plummet since the last election and Ford would win by a squeaker.

I think Chow would benefit from a phenomenon similar to the one that got Ford elected - a lot of people will want to make sure he doesn't get another term.

In any case, it's a little early to speculate - her platform could have a big impact on moderate perception.

 

[animated]

Perhaps I misspoke. She's just a run of the mill socialist I suppose:

Eat your words guitar

North America[edit]

In Canada, the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation, the precursor to the New Democratic Party, had some significant success in provincial politics. In 1944, the Saskatchewan CCF formed the first socialist government in North America. On the federal level, the social democratic New Democratic Party now forms the Official Opposition after winning 103/308 seats[187] (up from 37) in the 2011 Canadian federal election.

Yeah. Exactly.

There were Socialists in Saskatchewan in 1944. Therefore Olivia Chow is a socialist. Therefore she is the devil.

rOb foRd 4 eVeR!1!!one!
r3$pec+ 4 taxP@yerZ

 

[Silence&Motion]

I also wouldn't count on the "Chinese vote". For starters, there aren't enough people of Chinese descent in Toronto to tip the election. This isn't like the Hispanic vote in California or the Desi vote in Brampton. Secondly, Chinese voters aren't suddenly going to vote for Olivia Chow because she is Chinese. Thirdly, and most importantly, Chinese people (I'm one) are pretty disengaged from politics, especially considering that they are generally wealthier and more educated than other ethnic groups. I think this is especially true in municipal politics.

According to the 2006 Canadian Census, people claiming Chinese ethnicity make up 11.4% of Toronto's population (behind only South Asians at 12%). The 2011 figures haven't been released yet, but it is most likely above 12% now. Considering that most of this group lives in the suburbs and was probably more likely to support Ford in the last election, it would be a big deal if Chow was able to attract a majority of Chinese-Canadian votes. Certainly being able to communicate directly through the local Chinese press would be a huge advantage over her opponents.

Re: the nonsensical "left of socialism" comment. Keep in mind that despite the fact that they are on opposite ends of the ideological spectrum, both Ford and Chow are populists in style. They have built their political career on "sticking up for the little guy". Most voters have no strong ideological orientation and respond primarily to style, which explains why polls show that Chow would cut directly into Ford's support.

The UT community seems to be disproportionately made up of financially stable, educated professionals in either FIRE (finance, insurance, real estate) or cultural industries. So it makes sense to me that someone like John Tory would be the most popular potential candidate. Despite the general left-leaning tendencies of this community when it comes to public spending on parks and transit, there seem to be very few hardcore socialists/social-democrats who think economic inequality is the most important issue facing Canadians.