Rob Ford's Toronto

[freshcutgrass]

AIDS is probably the most preventable deadly disease in my lifetime. We know exactly what causes it and how to prevent it.

All the more reason to take the bloody $100 grand to help spread the word then.

But seriously though...you can never blame VIRUSES on people. They're VIRUSES fer fuk sakes!!

And good luck convincing the humans to not have sex. he he

 

[Danielinthecity]

What a surprise

Originally Posted by IH8TTC
There already is a Ford nation.....and to paraphrase a deceased lefty frog cretin: just watch us.

Wow ... a bigoted comment! Not surprising I guess from a Ford supporter ...

Also not surprising is that he can't even get it right...wasn't it, "Just watch me"...but of course those kinds of details/truths rarely matter for the oversimplified approach of many on the right...

...and 'frog'? Wow! Isn't there some suburban redneck forum for you out there, IH8TTC...nice nickname by the way...

 

[Hipster Duck]

The problem with a Ford Nation is that you need a white robe and hood to join.

It's amusing to see Ford linked with a Tea Party north - given that the Tea Party has been linked with white supremacists and the KKK.

If you want to be monogamous you need to choose your partner carefully.

I think that's easier said than done, Beez.

 

[GraphicMatt]

A "Tea Party North" without the homophobia, racism and religious stuff sure sounds boring. What are they going to do, sit around and talk tax policy? DULL.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I think that's easier said than done, Beez.

Definitely true, though most things worth doing right in life are easiler said than done. My wife and I have been together over 20 years now, have two great kids, nice house downtown, okay vehicles, okay jobs, etc. Was it easy? No friggin way. Were there terrible times, and opportunities to stray? Yes. But if you keep your mind and eye on the big picture and the future you can stick through anything.

 

[archanfel]

Definitely true, though most things worth doing right in life are easiler said than done. My wife and I have been together over 20 years now, have two great kids, nice house downtown, okay vehicles, okay jobs, etc. Was it easy? No friggin way. Were there terrible times, and opportunities to stray? Yes. But if you keep your mind and eye on the big picture and the future you can stick through anything.

Well, maybe for HIV, but not for HPV. Didn't they say 75%-80% of sexually active Americans will be infected? Virginity for both partners before wedlock is probably the only way to prevent those. Living in a bubble would probably prevent common cold, but is that the big picture we really want to concentrate on? I think it's unfair to ask people to adhere to certain life style just because it prevents certain diseases. I'd rather make sure people pay for their life style choices. And probably for their Karma too before people start to blame bad lucks.

 

[SlickFranky]

I think it's unfair to ask people to adhere to certain life style just because it prevents certain diseases. I'd rather make sure people pay for their life style choices. And probably for their Karma too before people start to blame bad lucks.

Really??? In the context of HIV???

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it comes across like you're saying "those queers deserve to die for their sins''. You may want to take a minute and re-word what you're trying to say here.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I don't want to put words in your mouth,

But you will anyway...

You may want to take a minute and re-word what you're trying to say here.

Or else what? Why not seek confirmation or lack thereof of your suspicions beforehand?

 

[archanfel]

Really??? In the context of HIV???

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but it comes across like you're saying "those queers deserve to die for their sins''. You may want to take a minute and re-word what you're trying to say here.

I didn't say anything about homosexuality, and my comment was not in the context of HIV. Even in the context of VD, I don't think sex orientation plays a major role. Use protections and know your partner apply to all people.

I think people should pay for their lifestyles. Not just HIVs, obesity, heart condition, skin cancer, lung cancer, you name it. I like to eat junk food. It's not healthy, I know it, but I am willing to pay for it. That's why private health insurance companies set their rates through complex risk assessments. If you smoke, you pay more. If you exercise more, you pay less. Yes, there may be prejudices, which should be corrected, but forgo risk assessments altogether is not the solution. Public health insurance may not be for profit, but it needs to be professional.

 

[Tewder]

A "Tea Party North" without the homophobia, racism and religious stuff sure sounds boring. What are they going to do, sit around and talk tax policy? DULL.

LOL, yes but there's something just so wonderfully Canadian in that!

 

[SlickFranky]

I didn't say anything about homosexuality, and my comment was not in the context of HIV. Even in the context of VD, I don't think sex orientation plays a major role. Use protections and know your partner apply to all people.

I think people should pay for their lifestyles. Not just HIVs, obesity, heart condition, skin cancer, lung cancer, you name it. I like to eat junk food. It's not healthy, I know it, but I am willing to pay for it. That's why private health insurance companies set their rates through complex risk assessments. If you smoke, you pay more. If you exercise more, you pay less. Yes, there may be prejudices, which should be corrected, but forgo risk assessments altogether is not the solution. Public health insurance may not be for profit, but it needs to be professional.

Thankyou for clarifying, and sorry for jumping to conclusions. And you're welcome for the softball segue to your libertarian meanderings.

Maybe you don't think HIV and homosexuality are tied, and in much of the world they're not....but in Toronto (and most of the western world) they are. And more relevantly, in the mind of Rob Ford they are linked (he's famously quoted as saying "If you’re not doing needles and you’re not gay, you won't get AIDS, probably.") And as much as I can appreciate your views on healthcare cost distribution and personal responsibility and so on, the fact remains that in our current system we do share the cost evenly, and small investments in screening and education save massive amounts of money for all of us down the road. From a purely financial stance (in our current system) it's an indisputable winner.

 

[Redroom Studios]

yep, there is a big movement in right wing America against preventative medicine and healthier lifestyles. I just dont get it. Unless you are big pharma or some other branch of for profit healthcare it makes no sense. Why wouldnt we want to promote a healthier society? I like wine and beer... but in my old age I can feel it taking a toll on my body so I cut way back in order that I may feel better. To suggest that people ought not or are incapable of rationally controlling their own harmful behaviours is ridiculous. And I'm not sure I would have apologized to archanfel, because I read his coded comments in the exact same way.

 

[toto]

yep, there is a big movement in right wing America against preventative medicine and healthier lifestyles. I just dont get it. Unless you are big pharma or some other branch of for profit healthcare it makes no sense. Why wouldnt we want to promote a healthier society? I like wine and beer... but in my old age I can feel it taking a toll on my body so I cut way back in order that I may feel better. To suggest that people ought not or are incapable of rationally controlling their own harmful behaviours is ridiculous. And I'm not sure I would have apologized to archanfel, because I read his coded comments in the exact same way.

If you look deep enough, you'll find that Health Canada and the FDA in the US are really working for Big pharma and the Monsantos of the world. Health Canada has more power to take away a citizen's rights than any other governement ministry. The current government has tried to pass various bills since 2006 that would do away with 80% of all natural suppliments on the market, effectivily making looking after one's self, much more difficult. Why? Because big Phama would rather you use their less effective, more costly in some cases, products. Placing big pharma ex - executives in key positions at Health Canada has become a very effective way of by passing the often lengthy and annoying traditional method of lobbying a government dept. for product acceptance.

 

[freshcutgrass]

small investments in screening and education save massive amounts of money for all of us down the road.

Which is why the Rob Fords of the world are their own worst enemy. If the figures I read were true, average lifetime medical costs of someone with HIV/AIDS is aprox $150,000. If these screening/educational programs prevent a single person from getting HIV, then it has paid us back a 50% dividend. If any 12 year old could easily grasp this concept, why can't a Rob Ford? But of course he does...his agenda here is not saving the taxpayers money...it's something else isn't it.

I think people should pay for their lifestyles.

Even if we had the time, money, resources and ability to turn each individual's "lifestyle" into some kind of equation for your costs to the health care system (which is a fantasy)...it wouldn't make much difference, because the genetic hand you've been dealt as well as the things beyond your control (accidents, etc) are going to determine these things.

This is not to say we should not promote habits that "may" reduce our risk of health issues (statistically speaking). But I'm not sure what it is that gives people a hard on over these anarchistic fantasy worlds they seem to dream about. Personally, I think they should be tested for a mental disorder...but that would cost the health care system money. ha

 

[archanfel]

Thankyou for clarifying, and sorry for jumping to conclusions. And you're welcome for the softball segue to your libertarian meanderings.

Maybe you don't think HIV and homosexuality are tied, and in much of the world they're not....but in Toronto (and most of the western world) they are. And more relevantly, in the mind of Rob Ford they are linked (he's famously quoted as saying "If you’re not doing needles and you’re not gay, you won't get AIDS, probably.") And as much as I can appreciate your views on healthcare cost distribution and personal responsibility and so on, the fact remains that in our current system we do share the cost evenly, and small investments in screening and education save massive amounts of money for all of us down the road. From a purely financial stance (in our current system) it's an indisputable winner.

If we refuse to even consider changing our current system, then we are no better than the conservatives.

yep, there is a big movement in right wing America against preventative medicine and healthier lifestyles. I just dont get it. Unless you are big pharma or some other branch of for profit healthcare it makes no sense. Why wouldnt we want to promote a healthier society? I like wine and beer... but in my old age I can feel it taking a toll on my body so I cut way back in order that I may feel better. To suggest that people ought not or are incapable of rationally controlling their own harmful behaviours is ridiculous. And I'm not sure I would have apologized to archanfel, because I read his coded comments in the exact same way.

Who decides what's best for people? I think climbing Mount Everest is probably more damaging to your body than drinking beer. Should we ban that ? How about horror movies? Why do we watch them when we know it's probably not good for our hearts? Should we ban those? Have you experienced the dream world induced by drugs? What if somebody thinks it's worth the health risk? Why do we ban those yet let horror movie run? Who decide where we draw the line?

People make choices in life, some of them are not good. We may regret a lot of them. However, I'd say it's a lot better than letting a government (no matter how democratic it is) to decide everything for us. The government is there to act as an independent arbitrator to make sure one's choices do not infringed on the freedoms of others. Other than that, we should be free to make choices, both good and bad, as long as we are willing to pay the price. If you want to cut back wine and beer, that's your choice. Don't force the choices on to others.

Even if we had the time, money, resources and ability to turn each individual's "lifestyle" into some kind of equation for your costs to the health care system (which is a fantasy)...it wouldn't make much difference, because the genetic hand you've been dealt as well as the things beyond your control (accidents, etc) are going to determine these things.

This is not to say we should not promote habits that "may" reduce our risk of health issues (statistically speaking). But I'm not sure what it is that gives people a hard on over these anarchistic fantasy worlds they seem to dream about. Personally, I think they should be tested for a mental disorder...but that would cost the health care system money. ha

Hmm... I wonder whether they forced those who claimed the earth was not the center of the universe to get a test for mental disorder. Maybe they just burned them and saved the health care system money.

It's not a fantasy. Private health insurance providers have been doing that for ages. Even in Canada, why do you think car insurance rates are different for different people? As for genetic, unless you are disabled from birth, there's no reason you should rely on social safety net. Yes, some people might have to work harder, but that's life. Things may be beyond your control, but you can always prepare for them. The problem of leaving personal responsibilities to the government is that you give up control over your life along with it.