I just got a "Rob Ford for Mayor" banner pop up on my Facebook.
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Rob Ford - Why the Supervillian?
- Thread starter T-Bor
- Start date
I just got a "Rob Ford for Mayor" banner pop up on my Facebook.
Tewder
Senior Member
This is possibly more true with central Toronto but otherwise I think the point is grossly oversimplified. On social issues Canada is definitely more resolutely to the 'left' but in fiscal matters there is far more of a legitimate spread.
lordmandeep
Banned
when it comes to fiscal policy I think Canadians are rather moderate.
Most Canadians do not like the recent trend of higher taxes for the same services. Even so I know many people who do not mind getting taxed more in getting better services. Imo, if government got more money it will just waste it on stupid things.
Most Canadians do not like the recent trend of higher taxes for the same services. Even so I know many people who do not mind getting taxed more in getting better services. Imo, if government got more money it will just waste it on stupid things.
nfitz
Superstar
Higher trend in taxes?
Seems to me we've had lots of tax cuts recently in the last decade or so. Such a thing was unheard of until then.
lordmandeep
Banned
The trend has reversed since the recession started.
New fees in Toronto, HST in Ontario.
Massive new taxes coming in the US, which will effect Canadians indirectly.
New fees in Toronto, HST in Ontario.
Massive new taxes coming in the US, which will effect Canadians indirectly.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
The HST makes sense, but McGuinty should not have included corporate and personal income tax cuts.
nfitz
Superstar
I'm not aware of any new fees in Toronto since the recession started; propertymill rates themselves have dropped the last couple of years. The HST isn't increasing the tax load ... what about the cut in income tax that came with it? What about the cuts in corporate tax? Provincial revenue isn't going up, so it's just rebalancing ... hardly a major tax increase. At the same time, we've seen cuts in the GST rate from 7% to 5% (though I guess during the recession it was only from 6% to 5%).
One certainly can't say that there's a trend to higher taxes in Toronto! As for foreign countries ... I'd think that if they increase their tax rates while we are dropping ours (corporately at least), we only stand to gain business.
King of Kensington
Senior Member
Cutting the GST may have been good politics, but it is bad policy. It cost the govt. billions of dollars in revenue, and really doesn't save the average person much money.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
I'm probably closest to a centre-right voter. However, I do not find Rob Ford, the Provincial Conservatives, or the Conservative Party of Canada attractive or representitive of my views. The trend of conservativism in Canada has followed the baby boomers as they trend along their life-cycle path.
The support behind Rob Ford and Steven Harper are drawn largely from men who conform to Churchill's observation when he stated "If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain." What we get is a brand of populist conservatism that mistrusts authority, government, and expertise because it believes that the small amount of life experience an individual gains by middle-age can be extrapolated to equate to the sum of all knowledge in the universe. Reading an article makes you an expert on foreign policy, having a kid makes you an expert in education, running a business makes you an expert in public financing.
As I've stated before this kind of mentality draws in people who live at the margins under the false belief that their circumstances are self-made. It is only natural that topics like taxation resonate with this group. What they don't realize is that they are fighting a battle against themselves on behalf of the wealthy. Populist conservatism's disregard for elitism, taxation, and government works to the advantage of the wealthy and guts the fundamental institutions that support the middle-class. The fact that middle-class and often marginal middle-class voters are fighting for their own socio-econonmic destructions is one of the great ironies of this century.
The support behind Rob Ford and Steven Harper are drawn largely from men who conform to Churchill's observation when he stated "If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain." What we get is a brand of populist conservatism that mistrusts authority, government, and expertise because it believes that the small amount of life experience an individual gains by middle-age can be extrapolated to equate to the sum of all knowledge in the universe. Reading an article makes you an expert on foreign policy, having a kid makes you an expert in education, running a business makes you an expert in public financing.
As I've stated before this kind of mentality draws in people who live at the margins under the false belief that their circumstances are self-made. It is only natural that topics like taxation resonate with this group. What they don't realize is that they are fighting a battle against themselves on behalf of the wealthy. Populist conservatism's disregard for elitism, taxation, and government works to the advantage of the wealthy and guts the fundamental institutions that support the middle-class. The fact that middle-class and often marginal middle-class voters are fighting for their own socio-econonmic destructions is one of the great ironies of this century.
lordmandeep
Banned
What about the Land Transfer Tax and the Vehicle Registration Fee. The increased TTC fares and the increasing fees for recreational centres.
Also the HST has a big effect on the average Joe, even the Ontario Government admits that!!!
I now government needs more money, but it appears all of this new revenue will be used just to maintain the status quo. It is my belief that before government increases taxes, it should look at itself. For examples most city projects are completed well over budget, millions are being spent on building a home for starving artists and so on.
When I see government spend money like that and then demand more, it makes me angry. I am not saying taxes should decrease and spending should stop.
Obama said while running for office (even though he failed spectacularly at following at it LOL!!!)...
That there is no need for small government or big government but for smart government.
Also the HST has a big effect on the average Joe, even the Ontario Government admits that!!!
I now government needs more money, but it appears all of this new revenue will be used just to maintain the status quo. It is my belief that before government increases taxes, it should look at itself. For examples most city projects are completed well over budget, millions are being spent on building a home for starving artists and so on.
When I see government spend money like that and then demand more, it makes me angry. I am not saying taxes should decrease and spending should stop.
Obama said while running for office (even though he failed spectacularly at following at it LOL!!!)...
That there is no need for small government or big government but for smart government.
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js97
Senior Member
The HST is a tax increase, no matter how you spin it. It's time for McGuinty to just say that they made a mistake letting someone like Smitherman free-reign on two HUGE portfolios because he's a 'good speaker', allow him to blow a whole bunch of money. With the bail outs (rightly or wrongly) the Libs had to make in the auto/manufacturing sector, someone had to pay. And be the end of it.
I think most canadians understand taxation pays for social services, but they revolt in the polls when you hear of politicians blowing money on unecessary perks, giving sweatheart deals to insiders etc.
Jean Chretien can be seen as one of the most fiscally conservative leaders of our times, and we didn't have any tax cuts etc....
Torontonians just want good value for their money, and good fiduciary duties performed by the decision makers.
The Miller regime has be OBVIOUSLY favoured way too many make-work projects for their union friends. Torontonians are not a fan of that, hence the RF backlash.
I think most canadians understand taxation pays for social services, but they revolt in the polls when you hear of politicians blowing money on unecessary perks, giving sweatheart deals to insiders etc.
Jean Chretien can be seen as one of the most fiscally conservative leaders of our times, and we didn't have any tax cuts etc....
Torontonians just want good value for their money, and good fiduciary duties performed by the decision makers.
The Miller regime has be OBVIOUSLY favoured way too many make-work projects for their union friends. Torontonians are not a fan of that, hence the RF backlash.
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nfitz
Superstar
Both predate the recession. As for increasing fares and fees. Generally that's called inflation. They are not taxation.
Your position is that taxation has had an incrasing trend since the recession started. I think this is false.
A big effect??? A very minor effect perhaps. A big effect? Point me to the URL that says that the government has said this. I'd say that the increase in petroleum prices over the last 5 years have had more of an impact.
What are you talking about? There is no new revenue. Income taxes and corporate taxes went down. The revenue is the same; it will actually decrease as further corporate tax cuts are planned.
Anyone who claims that the HST is a tax increase has blinders on, and is choosing to ignore all the tax cuts that came with it. It's only redistribution of taxes from business to individuals. It makes for a healthier economy, and is quite low-risk politically, as the Tories are very much in favour of this ... and only the NDP philosophically oppose it.
So if you oppose it ... I guess you ened to go vote for the NDP. And perhaps you will ... I don't really know your politics.
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MisterF
Senior Member
Churchill never said that.
lordmandeep
Banned
First of all, I am mostly targeting City Hall and the Provincial Government. The federal govt made a dumb move by lowering the GST, however they would have still gone far into debt anyways.
City Halls Revenues have increase greatly especially with all those fees and yet they cannot spend within their means and appear to have millions of dollars to slush around for pet projects. The city budget has gone up from below 7 billion from when Miller came into office to over 9 billion. That is a 30% increase over 8 years. Inflation has played a factor, but is that sustainable and justified in any way???
Dalton did admit the HST will hurt families...
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario...-hit-household-budgets-dalton-mcguinty-admits
Perhaps for you it is not noticeable, but I have just noted that my cable, internet, gas, hydro and water bills have gone up by 8%. I calculated that in July alone we are paying over 50 dollars for these things alone. When Winter rolls around and our gas bills goes to 300-500 dollars, I will be paying almost 40 dollars more a month because of the HST. It is hurting poor people hard, many are cutting back on spending and the housing market has started to slide. My family owns a small business and yes I know we get the tax credits, but we use to pay only 5% GST for the products we buy. Now we pay 8% more and I know we get that money back. However, this has impacted the Cash Flow of the business. For big business it has huge benefits but for a person owning a small business it seems pointless.
I recognize the benefits however I do not trust government job creation estimates. According to Obama he has created millions of jobs...
City Halls Revenues have increase greatly especially with all those fees and yet they cannot spend within their means and appear to have millions of dollars to slush around for pet projects. The city budget has gone up from below 7 billion from when Miller came into office to over 9 billion. That is a 30% increase over 8 years. Inflation has played a factor, but is that sustainable and justified in any way???
Dalton did admit the HST will hurt families...
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario...-hit-household-budgets-dalton-mcguinty-admits
Perhaps for you it is not noticeable, but I have just noted that my cable, internet, gas, hydro and water bills have gone up by 8%. I calculated that in July alone we are paying over 50 dollars for these things alone. When Winter rolls around and our gas bills goes to 300-500 dollars, I will be paying almost 40 dollars more a month because of the HST. It is hurting poor people hard, many are cutting back on spending and the housing market has started to slide. My family owns a small business and yes I know we get the tax credits, but we use to pay only 5% GST for the products we buy. Now we pay 8% more and I know we get that money back. However, this has impacted the Cash Flow of the business. For big business it has huge benefits but for a person owning a small business it seems pointless.
I recognize the benefits however I do not trust government job creation estimates. According to Obama he has created millions of jobs...
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GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
lordmandeep: Your continued Obama bashing and previous statement that taxes will soon be going up HUGE in the United States seems to indicate that you only have a cursory knowledge of news and events. You don't have good sources. (Obama is not raising taxes.)
The HST is the brainchild of the federal Conservative party. It was not a McGuinty idea and it is designed to be revenue neutral as far as the provincial government is concerned. It does deserve some criticism for being a regressive tax, however.
The HST is the brainchild of the federal Conservative party. It was not a McGuinty idea and it is designed to be revenue neutral as far as the provincial government is concerned. It does deserve some criticism for being a regressive tax, however.