Roads: Roundabouts

[W. K. Lis]

Perhaps. I don't know if current signal logic allows for that. Some municipalities default some signals to 'main route priority' during certain hours, but that requires sensors on the secondary route.

In Toronto, sensors are only for motor vehicles. In Europe, they have sensor or motion sensors so that pedestrians can activate their walk signal. Many times, I see pedestrians waiting almost forever for the signal to change, or they walk when the motor vehicles get a green light.

 

[KevinT]

Oh, and if you really want some fun, try out the Irish style mini-roundabout that they have retrofitted to standard 90 degree intersections. It’s brilliant, and it saves millions of dollars in investment in lights and signals....and they work. But drivers here would need a generation to adapt.

We already have some of these in Waterloo Region. I can't recall the exact intersection, but there's one in the Southwood area of Cambridge, and a new one that just went in this fall on Caryndale Dr at Hearthway and Evenstone in Kitchener.

 

[Mind_the_gap]

For the first time last summer, after using multiple roundabouts around Ontario, I finally saw a driver signal on exit. I was shocked. This was on Maley Phase 1 in Sudbury.

This has been a serious pet peeve of mine since Ontario started implementing roundabouts on a larger scale. We brought all the best aspects of roundabout infrastructure, without actually adopting the etiquette. They don’t work efficiently unless people signal on exit. The onus is on the driver to let merging traffic know when they can safely enter - not to leave merging traffic guessing. Ontario really needs to do some PSAs, and maybe mandate: ”SIGNAL ON EXIT” signs under the Yield signs on entry.

It doesn’t help that in the GTA, few people care to even use their blinkers on lane changes.

 

[afransen]

For the first time last summer, after using multiple roundabouts around Ontario, I finally saw a driver signal on exit. I was shocked. This was on Maley Phase 1 in Sudbury.

This has been a serious pet peeve of mine since Ontario started implementing roundabouts on a larger scale. We brought all the best aspects of roundabout infrastructure, without actually adopting the etiquette. They don’t work efficiently unless people signal on exit. The onus is on the driver to let merging traffic know when they can safely enter - not to leave merging traffic guessing. Ontario really needs to do some PSAs, and maybe mandate: ”SIGNAL ON EXIT” signs under the Yield signs on entry.

It doesn’t help that in the GTA, few people care to even use their blinkers on lane changes.

I have seen signage and PSAs suggesting people signal on entry, which is redundant.

 

[lenaitch]

I have seen signage and PSAs suggesting people signal on entry, which is redundant.

With the signal usage in Ontario, I'm not sure it would make things better or worse. 'They' say you should treat like any intersection and signal turns, but it could be argued that if I'm going straight through, I'm not turning, just making a slight jog around the centre. The legislation on signaling in the HTA is pretty vague. Up here, the snowbanks making signalling completely redundant anyway.

 

[afransen]

I have followed people who were signaling left through a roundabout. Who knows what that means. Kind of like the time last fall I was following someone who was signaling right, then turned left into the local watering hole (after I'm guessing some pre-game drinking). Good thing I was patient and didn't pass.

 

[nfitz]

I have seen signage and PSAs suggesting people signal on entry, which is redundant.

Why is it redundant. If you entering signalling left, then a car at the next entry knows you'll could be in their way. If they signal right they know you won't be in their way.

Is signalling in a left-hand turn late at a signalled intersection redundant?

I have followed people who were signaling left through a roundabout.

They probably forgot to cancel their signal after they entered. Same way people forget after a lane change.

 

[lenaitch]

Why is it redundant. If you entering signalling left, then a car at the next entry knows you'll could be in their way. If they signal right they know you won't be in their way.

Is signalling in a left-hand turn late at a signalled intersection redundant?

They probably forgot to cancel their signal after they entered. Same way people forget after a lane change.

Any driver that commits to a conflicting movement solely on a signal indication is playing a dangerous game. Your second statement proves the point.

 

[afransen]

Why is it redundant. If you entering signalling left, then a car at the next entry knows you'll could be in their way. If they signal right they know you won't be in their way.

Is signalling in a left-hand turn late at a signalled intersection redundant?

They probably forgot to cancel their signal after they entered. Same way people forget after a lane change.

You don't know if they are signalling left to just say they are entering the roundabout. You may also not always see where a car entered to know where they will exit. I definitely would not rely on such a signal to avoid a collision.

 

[Mind_the_gap]

There appear to be two separate camps here... Apparently in France, for example, you’d have to turn on your left blinker when entering a roundabout, while for the same movement in Germany, you just signal with your right blinker on exit. A matter of preferences, I guess, although the German way seems more intuitive to me.

Historically though, we did have rotaries (large traffic circles) in Ontario and I’m pretty sure you had to signal on exit on those, so maybe we should stick with that.

Regardless, my main point stands that without clear rules (legislation) on roundabout etiquette, Ontario’s roundabouts will remain in Wild West times.

 

[W. K. Lis]

How NOT to use a roundabout...

 

[crs1026]

Any driver that commits to a conflicting movement solely on a signal indication is playing a dangerous game.

Ditto - committing to a conflicting movement on the assumption that the other car will turn as their signal indicates.

And then there are California freeways, where a turn signal indicating a lane change is not a polite request, but a statement of what is about to happen.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

I'm not even sure that the engineering and design standards are sufficiently consistent to be able to train drivers, because no two roundabouts are identical and there are permutations and combinations that are hard to predict. Adding the requirement to signal to that is a brain teaser.

Here's an example - Hespeler Road in Cambridge.

The general rule that I have learned (the hard way) is that one should never enter a 2-lane roundabout in parallel to another vehicle, because there are too many places where the vehicle in the center has the right to cut across the outside lane to reach an exit, without even checking their blind spot.

The painted arrows on approach to this roundabout do give some clues, but at the last minute....and this roundabout isn't even symmetrical, so those instructions are direction-and lane-specific. There may be regulatory signs, but the congitive task for drivers to analyse those plus the painted arrows plus lane markings, at speed or in bad weather, is error-friendly.

- Paul

 

[Undead]

And then there are California freeways, where a turn signal indicating a lane change is not a polite request, but a statement of what is about to happen.

Which is exactly what's supposed to happen. You're not supposed to be polite as a driver, but predictable.

 

[lenaitch]

And then there are California freeways, where a turn signal indicating a lane change is not a polite request, but a statement of what is about to happen

An indication of intention vs. dire warning. Some drivers are under the impression that a turn signal imparts right-of-way.

Or the faith-and-hope driver - typically short, often elderly and, in bygone days, wearing a hat. Activate signal to give sufficient notice then very slowly change lanes in the hope that no one is there or, if they are, they have time to brake or avoid. Mirrors are for losers.

Actually, I take it all back. It's still alive and well, including big rigs. Just don't do it in front of a police car.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1621258105861308417