Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[ericmacm]

I drove past the HWY 401 Colonel Talbot Road interchange yesterday and some major progress has been made. It was hard to see everything because I drove past it in the dark, but the concrete columns in the median have been poured for both the new Colonel Talbot and Glanworth Drive overpasses, and the grading for the new Glanworth Drive overpass approach appears to be mostly complete.

The HWY 401 Dorchester Road interchange work has also been progressing quickly too, the steel for the new overpass has been up for over a month already, and the work in the median appears to be complete, with the construction zone lane closures already having shifted over to the shoulder lanes.

 

[just east of the creek]

From the BAYTODAY & Jessica Smith Cross.

I posted this to the 413 thread as well. But this is an interesting article about the motivations and modelling for the 413, the greater problem of growth, congestion, political motivations, urban planning etc. And the fact that study after study has shown that building more 413’s will not solve a problem, where the 413 to be built is really a tool to allow the type of urban planning and sprawl that has existed since the 1940’s and further, to enable those who lobby hardest for these developments to reap the riches of bulldozing new greenfield sites in the hundreds of acres.

Internal Ontario government traffic forecast shows crushing gridlock ahead — even with the 413​

Just 1,200 users to realize the controversial highway’s oft-touted half-hour time savings, the government projects

Internal Ontario government traffic forecast shows crushing gridlock ahead — even with the 413

Just 1,200 users to realize the controversial highway’s oft-touted half-hour time savings, the government projects

www.baytoday.ca

.

 

[ARG1]

From the BAYTODAY & Jessica Smith Cross.

I posted this to the 413 thread as well. But this is an interesting article about the motivations and modelling for the 413, the greater problem of growth, congestion, political motivations, urban planning etc. And the fact that study after study has shown that building more 413’s will not solve a problem, where the 413 to be built is really a tool to allow the type of urban planning and sprawl that has existed since the 1940’s and further, to enable those who lobby hardest for these developments to reap the riches of bulldozing new greenfield sites in the hundreds of acres.

Internal Ontario government traffic forecast shows crushing gridlock ahead — even with the 413​

Just 1,200 users to realize the controversial highway’s oft-touted half-hour time savings, the government projects

Internal Ontario government traffic forecast shows crushing gridlock ahead — even with the 413

Just 1,200 users to realize the controversial highway’s oft-touted half-hour time savings, the government projects

www.baytoday.ca

.

I'm going to have to dig deeper into the numbers they show here later, but I'm skeptical from the offset because we've seen articles/studies like these before which often completely twist the numbers to show something meaningless. I still remember that study that showed the 413 as "only saving an average of 30s of every commute", a number they got by averaging out every commute that occurs in the GTHA, including those that are nowhere near, and thus couldn't possibly benefit from the 413.

 

[darth_freeman]

It's not surprising gridlock will continue even after 413 and Bradford Bypass. It's natural for urban freeways like 401 to remain congested as they are the easiest and mode direct mode of travel. It's more about providing enhanced access, increasing volume, and allowing for development to meet provincial & federal growth goals.

 

[Krypto98]

I'm going to have to dig deeper into the numbers they show here later, but I'm skeptical from the offset because we've seen articles/studies like these before which often completely twist the numbers to show something meaningless. I still remember that study that showed the 413 as "only saving an average of 30s of every commute", a number they got by averaging out every commute that occurs in the GTHA, including those that are nowhere near, and thus couldn't possibly benefit from the 413.

I've done some basic math calculations, and it would save me about 4-5 minutes on MY personal commute between where I live to my workplace, over taking the conventional roads... about 2-3 over taking 407... what numbers I would like to see... but again I benefit from it cause I live right next to where the highway is going up..

I would like to see
Travel time of end to end of taking 413 from Milton to 400, compared to 407 and 401 routing...

Also controversial opinion, I don't think transport trucks should get a free pass on the 407, I constantly see them stagger across all 5 lanes causing the traffic to slow to 90-95 km/hr. Personally i think public transit busses such as GO should get a free pass instead.

 

[turbanplanner]

Nobody factors in the time saved when there is a crash on the 401 which is every 8 mins it seems, or during any sort of long term construction…

My drive which used to be 30 mins went up to about 50 from 1 lane on the 401 being closed due to the construction

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1825285240752947547

 

[Steve X]

Nobody factors in the time saved when there is a crash on the 401 which is every 8 mins it seems, or during any sort of long term construction…

My drive which used to be 30 mins went up to about 50 from 1 lane on the 401 being closed due to the construction

Until they stop treating construction as a social employment program, it'll never end.

It also seem like if they only did construction all at the same time every decade, there will be no expertise left as they all have to look for a different job.

 

[turini2]

The other thing that worries me about companies like Transurban, given what they've been doing in Sydney and Brisbane - is that it's urban highways 2.0.

They just happen to be underground, thereby "solving" the problem of needing to demolish vast swathes of inner city housing to build highways. A pro-car politician can happily support the project, knowing that they won't have locals protesting. I don't want the Spadina Expressway (or any other expressway!) to return from the dead, just because "putting a highway in a tunnel makes it okay".

In my personal opinion, we should be removing highways from cities - not building more.

Sigh. The 401 tunnel proposal has the fingers of Transurban all over it.

 

[rdaner]

Does this go here?

Ontario Premier Doug Ford won’t rule out buyback of Highway 407, valued at $29-billion

Doug Ford says ‘all options are on the table’ to fight congestion

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[T-Bor]

I was wondering how long until the 407 idea came up. Politics aside, it seems to make more sense to do this vs build a 401 tunnel at who knows how much. At least as it could be done far sooner. Though as per the article, Ford did seem to double down on the 401 tunnel idea

I also didn't know that CPP owns 50.01% of the 407

 

[nfitz]

Until they stop treating construction as a social employment program, it'll never end.

I don't even know what means, unless you have time travelled to the 1930s or something.

I'll bite. How are lowest-bid profit-making companies "treating construction as a social employment program"?

I was wondering how long until the 407 idea came up. Politics aside, it seems to make more sense to do this vs build a 401 tunnel at who knows how much. At least as it could be done far sooner. Though as per the article, Ford did seem to double down on the 401 tunnel idea.

How does 407 help? Ford noted in the news conference that 407 would already be at capacity by the time 401 opens.

The busiest sections are already very busy at peak. And if they turn that into gridlock now, capacity reduces. Which will surely make the 401 worse, not better.

 

[T-Bor]

How does 407 help? Ford noted in the news conference that 407 would already be at capacity by the time 401 opens.

The busiest sections are already very busy at peak. And if they turn that into gridlock now, capacity reduces. Which will surely make the 401 worse, not better.

Yeah but the 401 will take probably decades to complete. I get induced demand, but there is capacity now. The 401 is often jammed even on weekends

 

[Haljackey]

An election pledge to buy the 407 and remove the tolls would buy all the suburban Toronto votes

 

[rdaner]

^It would also give them more time to play around with the 413. A big immediate benefit is for trucking and industry which is a good thing !