Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[gweed123]

Just looked on the MTO website, and according to their graphic they do have the QEW from the 403 to the 427 listed under their "longer term" implementation of HOV lanes: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/hov/plan2007.shtml#developing

Presumably this reconstruction project at Dixie wouldn't be finished until at least 2017 anyway, so the timing may actually work out.

On a side note though, I wish the MTO would ditch their "HOV lanes added only through highway expansion" mantra, and add an HOV lane to the Express lanes on the 401. The impact on general traffic would be negligible (it's a crapshoot most times anyway), and it would certainly be well used.

 

[dunkalunk]

Can we please move all discussion of Highway 10/Hurontario and other legacy road names to another thread? It is a bit tedious for the rest of us following this thread.

 

[Markster]

Can we please move all discussion of Highway 10/Hurontario and other legacy road names to another thread? It is a bit tedious for the rest of us following this thread.

I agree.
It would be useful to all of us to have a separate thread to point to whenever this thread or the Highway 401 widening thread go off topic.

 

[ShonTron]

Maybe complaints about threads going off topic should go into a new thread. I find them distracting too.

Seriously, though, there's no need. There will simply be no more discussion here on that dead subject.

 

[dunkalunk]

Maybe complaints about threads going off topic should go into a new thread. I find them distracting too.

Touché monsieur! Onwards!

 

[Dan416]

I look forward to the Dixie/QEW interchange being normalized. The current setup has never made sense to me.

 

[Haljackey]

The whole area is in need of a overhaul. Ultimately I'd like to see the QEW with 10 lanes (8 lanes +2HOVs) from 403/407 all the way to the 427. The government already cheapened out on the cosigned 403 section when they put in the HOVs there as it was originally intended to be this width but ended up being 6 lanes +2HOVs.

You could have a really good HOV system going if you pushed the system onto the inner lanes of the 427 and extended them to the 401 or Pearson airport.

 

[Kitsune]

For Ontario... are there any parclo's ending at a roundabout? Because that is what they are purposing in Sudbury when 400 meets 17: http://www.highway17sudburytomarkstay.ca/pic2b.htm (look at Alternative 1 and 5). We'll know the official plain early next year. Its interesting to note that Highway 17 will be a 400 style freeway throughout its entire route in Greater Sudbury when 400 is extended all the way to Sudbury.

 

[gweed123]

For Ontario... are there any parclo's ending at a roundabout? Because that is what they are purposing in Sudbury when 400 meets 17: http://www.highway17sudburytomarkstay.ca/pic2b.htm (look at Alternative 1 and 5). We'll know the official plain early next year. Its interesting to note that Highway 17 will be a 400 style freeway throughout its entire route in Greater Sudbury when 400 is extended all the way to Sudbury.

Interesting. They'll probably keep the 17 name though, much like they did with Highway 7 just west of Ottawa, even though it's at 400-series standards. It seems they don't want two disjointed 400-series segments with the same 400-series names.

 

[Dan416]

Will they eventually connect? If so maybe they'll wait till they do to have the whole thing have a 400-number. I don't think the MTO wants another 403 situation again.

 

[gweed123]

Will they eventually connect? If so maybe they'll wait till they do to have the whole thing have a 400-number. I don't think the MTO wants another 403 situation again.

I doubt it. They may twin to from Arnprior to Renfrew and from Sudbury to North Bay, but the section in between? Probably not in our lifetime.

Although I guess one of the things that they could do would be to build a Super 2 between Renfrew and North Bay along a new alignment in some locations, using the existing alignment in others. There are quite a few sections between Deep River and Mattawa where there is nothing on either side of the road for miles.

Is there any precedence for a Super 2 being given a 400-series designation in Ontario? I know that Quebec still signs the Super 2 section of Highway 50 between Gatineau and Mirabel the same as the twinned sections of the highway, but Quebec's Autoroute designations are less strict than Ontario's are.

 

[ShonTron]

Interesting. They'll probably keep the 17 name though, much like they did with Highway 7 just west of Ottawa, even though it's at 400-series standards. It seems they don't want two disjointed 400-series segments with the same 400-series names.

Very interesting. It's the first time I've heard about advanced plans for the freewayization of Highway 69's four-lane undivided Richard Lake section immediately south of Sudbury.

There are/were other sections of Highway 7 built to freeway standards - Conestoga Parkway in Kitchener, and the concurrent routing with Highway 115 in Peterborough and the former concurrency with Highway 410 in Brampton.
It will assign 400-series numbers to Super 2s if it is an independent route planned for future freeway upgrading - Highway 406 is such an example; Highway 410 was merely a quasi-Super 2 when built and already numbered as a freeway, fully independent of Highway 10 (and continued to be until the Mayfield-Valleywood link was built a few years ago).

The MTO doesn't assign 400-series numbers to highways diverted to freeway sections, unless it is part of a long through route partially independent of its parent highway. Highway 417 was only designated as such when the East Ottawa-Quebec Border section was built, the earlier Queensway freeway through Ottawa was just Highway 17. Highway 427 was only created when it was extended to include the Airport Expressway, which deviated off of Highway 27, which was Highway 427's previous designation, even when it was a full freeway standard between QEW and 401.

Highway 115 isn't a 400-series highway because of the concurrent RIRO expressway with 35. 115 didn't start off as a freeway to begin with, but a controlled access two-lane highway between Peterborough and 35.

 

[gweed123]

Very interesting. It's the first time I've heard about advanced plans for the freewayization of Highway 69's four-lane undivided Richard Lake section immediately south of Sudbury.

The MTO doesn't assign 400-series numbers to highways diverted to freeway sections, unless it is part of a long through route partially independent of its parent highway. Highway 417 was only designated as such when the East Ottawa-Quebec Border section was built, the earlier Queensway freeway through Ottawa was just Highway 17. Highway 427 was only created when it was extended to include the Airport Expressway, which deviated off of Highway 27, which was Highway 427's previous designation, even when it was a full freeway standard between QEW and 401.

It will assign 400-series numbers to Super 2s if it is an independent route planned for future freeway upgrading - Highway 406 is such an example; Highway 410 was merely a quasi-Super 2 when built and already numbered as a freeway, fully independent of Highway 10 (and continued to be until the Mayfield-Valleywood link was built a few years ago).

But now that 417 exists from the Quebec border to Arnprior, do you think that an upgraded to a Super 2 Highway 17 between Arnprior or Renfrew and North Bay would get a 400-series designation, especially if it connects to a 400-series ready section in Sudbury?

If that middle section were built (or rebuilt in most areas) as a controlled access Super 2, the highway would be controlled access from the Quebec border to the west side of Sudbury. Theoretically then that whole segment could be signed as 417, with 17 beginning west of Sudbury.

I guess a similar question can be had with Highway 11 from Orillia to North Bay. Not fully controlled access, but now twinned the entire way. Worthy of a 400-series designation (Highway 411?) or no? Same deal with 35/115 up to Peterborough. IMO that whole highway should be signed as 435.

 

[dunkalunk]

For Ontario... are there any parclo's ending at a roundabout? Because that is what they are purposing in Sudbury when 400 meets 17: http://www.highway17sudburytomarkstay.ca/pic2b.htm (look at Alternative 1 and 5). We'll know the official plain early next year. Its interesting to note that Highway 17 will be a 400 style freeway throughout its entire route in Greater Sudbury when 400 is extended all the way to Sudbury.

I know that there are plans for a roundabout at the 401/Brock Road (Highway 6 South) interchange when the Morriston bypass is constructed (can't find link to project site)

EDIT I did find evidence of the roundabout on page 35 of the Hespeler-Halton 401 EA

 

[ShonTron]

But now that 417 exists from the Quebec border to Arnprior, do you think that an upgraded to a Super 2 Highway 17 between Arnprior or Renfrew and North Bay would get a 400-series designation, especially if it connects to a 400-series ready section in Sudbury?

If that middle section were built (or rebuilt in most areas) as a controlled access Super 2, the highway would be controlled access from the Quebec border to the west side of Sudbury. Theoretically then that whole segment could be signed as 417, with 17 beginning west of Sudbury.

I guess a similar question can be had with Highway 11 from Orillia to North Bay. Not fully controlled access, but now twinned the entire way. Worthy of a 400-series designation (Highway 411?) or no? Same deal with 35/115 up to Peterborough. IMO that whole highway should be signed as 435.

I can't see ever see a continous freeway, even with a super-2 section between Sudbury and Pointe-Fortune. The most to expect is further conversion of Highway 17 to 417 towards Pembroke; I can't see major upgrades being fiscally responsible anywhere past Deep River. Perhaps if the Cobden bypass is built first as a Super-2 and connected to a western exenstion of Highway 417 to Renfrew, that could be designated 417 to where it rejoins the incumbant 17 alignment towards Pembroke.

There's also the matter of the expensive upgrades though, or a wide detour around, North Bay, which has six sets of lights and the ONR grade crossing to remove. That would be a huge project, with some merit.

Interestingly, the MTO built a new roundabout at Highway 533 in Mattawa. Maybe Mattawa should be bypassed by a short super-2 section, that new roundabout looks a bit awkward, but is that way as it is on top of a railway underpass.

As far as anachronistic highway designations still in the MTO's system: Highway 655, which is built to full King's Highway standards, has a 90 km/h speed limit, and has scheduled intercity bus services between Timmins and Cochrane, still reflects that it was an old secondary highway spur off 101 to serve a large gold mine (and later extended to Highway 11). It should be renumbered to 155, much like Highway 544 was renumbered to 144 when the long extension to Timmins was built.