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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

lenaitch said:
I didn't even know there were plans to extend it to 12. For commercial traffic heading west, Hwy 404 would be of no benefit; neither would it be for Barrie commuters. In order for any improved highway on the east side of the lake to connect to Hwy 11, it would have to follow CR 169, which would require significant land acquisition around Washago, as well as Brechin further south. When travelling down the east side of the lake, I do all I can to avoid Hwy 12 because of all the gravel haulers.

As far as the Bradford Bypass, I don't know how they are justifying (if they are even trying) cutting through that wetland area. It is a helpful filtration/mitigation area for the phosphates coming out the Holland Marsh. If nothing else, the construction costs will be significant.
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Sometimes I go that way around from the north via Old Highway 169 and 12 through Washago and Brechin. It’s the only real way to avoid Barrie. But Highway 48 along the south shore of Lake Simcoe can be a slog too. And Highway 12 can be painful.

I don’t think Highway 404 needs to be extended, but perhaps it could use a better hookup with an upgraded Highway 48 towards Beaverton. It’s ridiculous how a major 4-lane freeway ends with a crappy two-lane county road expected to take up the slack to get motorists over.
 
My opinion is that the 404 should go to Sutton in order to properly connect to 48.. but the full thing to Beaverton is unnecessary. 12 needs to be 4 lanes from 169 to 48 as well, including a bypass of Brechin. But that can just be a standard 4 lane roadway like Highway 10.
 
Heres an idea, how about we build a GO station at every single town in Ontario and thus no more cars on the road, no more highways, maybe this will satisfy the environmentalists till they find something else to complain about. 🤠
 
CaskoChan said:
Heres an idea, how about we build a GO station at every single town in Ontario and thus no more cars on the road, no more highways, maybe this will satisfy the environmentalists till they find something else to complain about. 🤠
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That is how a large number of towns in Ontario got started; mud road for wagons and a single track railway.

I wouldn't object to a plan which replaced new regional services like Simcoe County LINX with a province-wide GO bus hub&spoke network at 2 hour frequencies despite knowing a 90% subsidy would be required for many years. Greyhound probably isn't going to return with their 2019 network anytime soon, and even that had major holes in it. I know rural volunteers who have spent man-years in their car driving elderly and mobility impaired to doctors appointments in nearby cities (mostly to/from London). Volunteer oriented public transit is extremely fragile; most of the volunteers are retired and aging.
 
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I agree with what one user said, I dont want a 6 lane highway plowing through southern caledon, I just want a low profile 4 lane right off way with no stoplights, because those waste the most gas.

cough cough brampton cough cough
 
north-of-anything said:
York Road 8? As in Woodbine Avenue? That's east of the 404. Unless you mean Canal Road, which is one lane in each direction. Except the town is still dragging its feet on even signalizing the intersection with Bridge Street.
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lenaitch said:
Yup, sorry, I meant Simcoe Cty 8 (Canal Rd.).
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Contrary to what Google Maps displays, Canal Rd is no longer a county road and simply referred to by its name. Neither is nearby former county road 41.
 
terag51 said:
Contrary to what Google Maps displays, Canal Rd is no longer a county road and simply referred to by its name. Neither is nearby former county road 41.
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Thanks for that. It seems they have uploaded Line 5 from Hwy 400 west the CT+R 27 (CR 14), probably because of the new employment lands bordering the highway. I suppose the point being that, regardless of jurisdiction, if the exercise was simply to provide a bypass to Bradford town centre, this route would serve that at much lower cost and environmental disruption. Calling a link between 404 and 400 as a bypass is a bit disingenuous.
 
The Bradford Bypass may help relieve some traffic on the 400 south of it as commuters/travelers heading north could use the 404 instead north up to this new highway.

Right now it's all being funneled on the 400, and for those who want to avoid the 407 tolls to get from 404 to 400, they're taking the 401. This road may even help relieve 401 traffic even though it is so far away... kind of like a butterfly effect.

I'm for relieving traffic congestion on the 401 since it's the lifeblood of the province, so I support this bypass. It's just too bad this couldn't be integrated with GTA-west (413) so you'd have one continuous link but that's another topic altogether lol.

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The 404 currently ends in the middle of nowhere, so an extension to Highway 12 would make it's terminus a more useful connection. I can't see the immediate need for further extensions... maybe up to the 12/169 split near Orillia and then one day possibly a further extension to #11.

Heck if a few upgrades are made to 11 north of wherever the 404 would meet it, the highway could be renumbered 404 all the way to North Bay.
 
lenaitch said:
It would take more than a few upgrades to bring Hwy 11 up to 400-series standards.
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Enough trouble that the MTO would rather bypass the entire stretch.

Service roads would need to be build and local road network would need to be redone. Interchanges need to be built along with new overpasses. The ROW isn't wide enough for 6 lanes expansion without taking away people's properties in many places.

North of Gravenhurst, there is a number of at-grade crossings that needs to be address. It's not as simple as closing them off. Hwy 11 is their only access and would need a number of new local roads to be built.
 
RE: Bradford Bypass - I do think it's laughable that the MTO can get away with 'well we did look at alternative routes... in the mid 1990s'. The official line is
"This Preliminary Design and Class EA of the Bradford Bypass is for the 2002 EA approved route. Refinements to the design within the Study Area may be made during the course of the study." - i.e. sure, we'll make minor changes but there's no way we're starting again!

25 ish years have passed - a lot has happened in the GTHA since then (Highway 407, Greenbelt, lots of new residential....) and environmental consideration have moved on considerably too!
 
turini2 said:
25 ish years have passed - a lot has happened in the GTHA since then (Highway 407, Greenbelt, lots of new residential....) and environmental consideration have moved on considerably too!
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Agreed. I'm fine with an old EA being used for something like filling in the 401 median between Tilbury and London because this area hasn't changed much. Compare this to a brand new highway build in one of the most active areas in the country and it's a different ball game. This needs to be built right or not at all, in my mind.
 
Haljackey said:
Agreed. I'm fine with an old EA being used for something like filling in the 401 median between Tilbury and London because this area hasn't changed much. Compare this to a brand new highway build in one of the most active areas in the country and it's a different ball game. This needs to be built right or not at all, in my mind.
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Using old EA need to be review if over 5 years old as a lot could have change over that timeframe that can have a major impact on it as well new option could be on the table today. The Greenbelt wasn't around or thought of 25 years ago as well change to the environment.

Don't support the median style between Tilbury and London as its too narrow. How many lives have to be lost or have major injuries that cost more than building a centre concrete median??

This new bypass needs the correct median from day one regardless the cost as it will save lives.

With 2 million more cars on the road by 2040, are we going to pave all the farm land over to deal with this increase of road needs or we going to look at real changes to not have this amount of extra cars on overcrowded roads???
 
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