Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[lenaitch]

I don't drive up there that much anymore.
I understand that the wide should experiment from the 1970's* lead to an unsafe situation between Bala and Parry Sound. But I recall that north of Parry Sound (hwy. 124) there were enough truck passing lanes that things were pretty smooth.

* - slower traffic was encouraged to drive on the shoulder and allow faster vehicles to pass on the lane. If it was 1 truck passing another truck, the oncoming traffic would also likely have to shift towards their shoulder a bit. As a slower driver (in a VW van), it kept me awake as I would constantly be checking the rear view mirror for approaching faster traffic. It did lead to problems if there actually was someone broken down on the shoulder. Then the MTO removed the signage - but some people still followed this custom. Those who didn't follow were sometimes passed on the right by frustrated faster traffic.

I worked up there when the paved shoulder experiment started. The original plan was to mandate slower traffic moving to the right but it changed just before implementation to make it optional. If there are any original signs left on former ROWs you can actually see that "slower traffic may use shoulder" was actually a sticker overlaying "use". It wasn't bad but wasn't great. There were issues with parked/stopped vehicles, winter maintenance (the paved shoulder was only 9' with nothing beyond), reluctant drivers and the shoulder disappearing at bridges which are often over the brow of a hill. The traffic volumes were nowhere near what they are today.

Since paved shoulders were/are uncommon on 2-lane highways in Ontario, the idea was to try and recreate what is normal if not official practice in the prairies and other places that are used to paved shoulders.

 

[BurlOak]

There is a difference in stopping a planned project and one that is underway.

I don't see the point of stopping the construction to the Sudbury as its already well underway and frankly will do wonders in encouraging more tourism there from South Ontario.

If we count this as a Bala to Sudbury project, then it is a +/- 35 year project that will be extended to 40 or 45. It is generally broken into 10 to 15km segments to allow enough reasonable sized contractors to bid on it. If it's just a matter of delaying a few of these contracts to stretch it out by 5 or 10 years, then I see no real problem.

 

[BurlOak]

How come hardly anyone is discussing all the work going on the QEW between Tradalfar Rd and Winston Churchill?

I'm not referring specifically to this forum, but searching for any info on this project on the internet turns up hardly any results.

Plus I don't remember the government making any announcements about this project.

The EA discussed making the Ford plant inerchange a full interchange for all movements. However, it was cut back a couple of years ago to just replace the Ford Drive and 403 under QEW bridges, which had a few problems. They did build an extra bridge over Ford to help with staging QEW traffic (this would eventually become a mini-collector lane bridge over Ford), but I don't think any of rest of the plan is going ahead.
I would say the 403 from QEW to Burnhamthorpe is the most urgent to require an additional lane - and it wouldn't require any bridge works.

Maybe they stayed quiet because the EA approved the full interchange, so it was a let-down.

https://www.oakville.ca/assets/general - residents/transportationstudy-403-QEW-execsum.pdf

 

[lenaitch]

If we count this as a Bala to Sudbury project, then it is a +/- 35 year project that will be extended to 40 or 45. It is generally broken into 10 to 15km segments to allow enough reasonable sized contractors to bid on it. If it's just a matter of delaying a few of these contracts to stretch it out by 5 or 10 years, then I see no real problem.

I tend to agree. There's only so much public money to go around. There will still be some bottlenecks but the remaining 2-lane section is far enough north that it won't normally experience heavy backups. The problem they had with the stranded 2-lane section south of Mactier was that it was in an area of heavy cottage traffic and went from 4 to 2 to 4 lanes during protracted negotiations with the First Nation. Between Parry Sound and Sudbury they have to deal with at least three FNTs but I don't know where all of that stands.

 

[muller877]

The thing is, a traffic jam in Kitchener is not the same as a traffic jam in the GTA. I just chuckle when I hear people from smaller towns complaining of slow downs that add a few minutes of delay while in the GTA every major highway has about a 20+ minute delay in the peak hour.

Sorry, but HWY 7 delays are real, and can add up to an hour in each direction over the 20km distance. It's why many people choose to not drive altogether and use GO when possible. .

My co-workers who drive it every day can confirm this. Without traffic it takes about 20 minutes. On average 45 minutes and on a bad day 1 hour. Not much different than many highway stretches in the GTA which I often drive.

And unless you are working at the Co-operators in Guelph (right beside the station) there is pretty much zero options for transit. And worse for people going from Guelph to KW.

 

[JasonParis]

The remaining chunk of Highway 69 that is not under construction is also under review and the feeling is the Conservatives will cancel it. There will be about 80 km left when the latest construction is wrapped up in 2020.

Curious if there are still negotitations to be had with First Nations bands or has that all been resolved and it is now just a funding issue in terms of getting the 400 all the way to Sudbury?

 

[gweed123]

The EA discussed making the Ford plant inerchange a full interchange for all movements. However, it was cut back a couple of years ago to just replace the Ford Drive and 403 under QEW bridges, which had a few problems. They did build an extra bridge over Ford to help with staging QEW traffic (this would eventually become a mini-collector lane bridge over Ford), but I don't think any of rest of the plan is going ahead.
I would say the 403 from QEW to Burnhamthorpe is the most urgent to require an additional lane - and it wouldn't require any bridge works.

Maybe they stayed quiet because the EA approved the full interchange, so it was a let-down.

https://www.oakville.ca/assets/general - residents/transportationstudy-403-QEW-execsum.pdf

Is the HOV lane extension to Winston Churchill still in the plan? It would be great to bypass the 403 merge area in that lane (heading WB).

 

[ShonTron]

I'm up in Sudbury at least once a year, if not more often than that. Every little bit built since 2003 has helped considerably - the completion of the freeway around Parry Sound, the Wahta Gap, the Nobel Bypass, the Estaire Bypass, and the extensions south past Highway 637 and Highway 64. Every improvement has saved between 5 and 10 minutes off the drive up. If only the bottleneck around Barrie could be addressed...

 

[innsertnamehere]

I'm up in Sudbury at least once a year, if not more often than that. Every little bit built since 2003 has helped considerably - the completion of the freeway around Parry Sound, the Wahta Gap, the Nobel Bypass, the Estaire Bypass, and the extensions south past Highway 637 and Highway 64. Every improvement has saved between 5 and 10 minutes off the drive up. If only the bottleneck around Barrie could be addressed...

MTO is working towards it. It's going to dump a couple billion on the 400 over the next decade, by the looks of it. The Major Mack - King Road HOV is only but the first in a series of widening projects that will work their way up the 400. I expect we will see a formal announcement of HOVs up to Highway 9 this year, given that it is more or less already under construction (only a 2km gap remains, which has no structural work). the King Road, Highway 9, and Duckworth Street interchange reconstructions are completed, Aurora-Llyodtown road is under construction, Essa Road is funded, and MTO is also in detailed design for several other interchange reconstruction (hwy 88 and Innisfil Beach road are next I believe) projects, as well as the dozen or so bridge replacement projects along the highway.

 

[Neutrino]

Are there any plans to widen the 400 through Barrie?

 

[innsertnamehere]

Are there any plans to widen the 400 through Barrie?

... see my post.

Short term is a new HOV lane, long term is new HOV and an additional General purpose lane.

MTO Also wants to put Ontario' first diverging diamond interchange at Mapleview Drive.

 

[Neutrino]

Ah, I didn't look up the location of Duckworth Street.

 

[lenaitch]

It will be interesting to see how they intend to widen between Dunlop and Bayfield - it's pretty constrained.

 

[darth_freeman]

My co-workers who drive it every day can confirm this. Without traffic it takes about 20 minutes. On average 45 minutes and on a bad day 1 hour. Not much different than many highway stretches in the GTA which I often drive.

This seems to be because there are a few signalized intersections on Highway 7 between Guelph and Kitchener with only one lane per direction.

Seems a bit odd a freeway is considered before the road is even widened to two lanes.

 

[ShonTron]

... see my post.

Short term is a new HOV lane, long term is new HOV and an additional General purpose lane.

MTO Also wants to put Ontario' first diverging diamond interchange at Mapleview Drive.

The Mapleview Drive area is an awful mess, and that's mostly thanks to Barrie deciding to dump all its big-box retail there, including the redevelopment of Molson Park. I always thought it would be a good place for a SPUI, rather than a diverging diamond, given the land constraints there.