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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

darth_freeman said:
Generally, expanding beyond 6 adjacent lanes is not desirable and express/collector is recommended. 3 express/3 collector will operate much better than 6 general lanes, and is better for accident management/redundancy, etc.
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3 express, 3 collector.
  • 2.5m left shoulder, 3.5m left lane, 2x3.75 lanes and 3.0m right shoulder. Repeat for collector. Then a 0.8m median barrier. Total = 33.8m

7 lanes.
  • 2.5m left shoulder, 2x3.75m lanes, and 5x3.75 lanes and 3.0m right shoulder. Total = 31.25m
8 lanes.
  • 2.5m left shoulder, 2x3.75m lanes, and 6x3.75 lanes and 3.0m right shoulder. Total = 35.0m
So to be fair, the 3/3 core/collector should be compared to a 7 or 8 lanes freeway. I likely agree with your conclusion, but not how you arrived at it.
 
BurlOak said:
3 express, 3 collector.
  • 2.5m left shoulder, 3.5m left lane, 2x3.75 lanes and 3.0m right shoulder. Repeat for collector. Then a 0.8m median barrier. Total = 33.8m

7 lanes.
  • 2.5m left shoulder, 2x3.75m lanes, and 5x3.75 lanes and 3.0m right shoulder. Total = 31.25m
8 lanes.
  • 2.5m left shoulder, 2x3.75m lanes, and 6x3.75 lanes and 3.0m right shoulder. Total = 35.0m
So to be fair, the 3/3 core/collector should be compared to a 7 or 8 lanes freeway. I likely agree with your conclusion, but not how you arrived at it.
Click to expand...

I worked out there for a few years and didn't know there were different lane widths. Maybe there were and I have forgotten. One of the significant impediments to smooth traffic flow are lanes - not acceleration/deceleration - disappearing or turning into a deceleration lane. Those familiar with an area can often anticipate them but for those who can't/don't it causes bottlenecks.
 
My problems with Ontario expressways:

  1. Slow or at the posted speed limit in left lanes.
  2. Right lanes should be through lanes, but end up merging left. Resulting in slow drivers staying in the center or left lanes.
  3. Maximum speeds should be 120 km/h, in the urban express lanes or rural expressways.
  4. Adjustable speed limit signs, according to weather or road conditions.
 
Larry said:
I hear you however the merging from collector to express and visa-versa is in itself responsible for delays and accidents. And there still could be Express/HOV lanes that just don't have physical barriers as there are in parts now. Ideally of course there would be incentives for good driving and penalties for bad driving that are electronically enforced. But of course it's just a theoretical discussion - speaking of which - do you base your opinion on a study or ?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I'll add to what others have already posted: The collector/express system is actually better for the 401 than having 6+ adjacent lanes. I was recently in Los Angeles for the first time in over a decade and most of their freeways contain 6 - 8 adjacent lanes including HOV lanes. Their traffic is horrendously bad but really no worse than what we see here in Toronto. There is also a noticeable drop in traffic outside of rush hour, which was surprising. The main problems with their freeway system:

1. Multiple adjacent lanes leads to continuous weaving and lane changing causing gridlock (also more dangerous)
2. HOV lanes and lane additions over the years have taken away shoulder areas on many freeways which causes severe backups when accidents occur
3. I don't have actual figures or data but my belief is their freeway lanes are narrower than those on MTO highways. They may have "more lanes" on multiple freeways but their narrow width isn't conducive to consistent travel speeds
4. Their freeway system is actually incredibly convoluted and fragmented: multiple freeways end and/or become concurrent with other freeways and require awkward transfers to continue on your route. Key examples are the 10 running concurrent with the 5 through downtown and vice-versa. The 710 and 110 (both N-S freeways) end abruptly north of downtown but continue onwards north of their original ending points. These awkward transfer areas create huge bottlenecks, especially during rush hour.

Key point here: The 401 would be worse without the collector/express system. It's better than the alternative.
 
Haljackey said:
Warning: terrible 'accident' (fatal I'm afraid)

https://streamable.com/yk95x

What do we need now? Barrier-separated HOV lanes now due to lunatics like this? That shouldn't be needed if people had some common sense
Click to expand...

Flexible bollards could be used at a few key spots but they would have to be removed during winter. This location on 403 is probably the worst because traffic from 410/401 collectors has to sit in a miserable queue until they can access the HOV lane, which is lightly used only by 401 express traffic at the start.
 
Translude15 said:
3. I don't have actual figures or data but my belief is their freeway lanes are narrower than those on MTO highways. They may have "more lanes" on multiple freeways but their narrow width isn't conducive to consistent travel speeds.
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Freeway lanes widths in the US are 12' (3.66m). Although in some urban settings they may have been reduced to squeeze in an extra lane.
In Ontario, they went with 3.75m. (Sometimes the left driving lane was set at 3.5m in multi-lane freeways - since no trucks). Interesting that in the switch to metric they still used the basic philosophy of the Imperial System by dividing the metre into quarters. Ontario is just now abandoning their own Geometric Design Manual and switching to the Canada one (TAC). I think 3.7m is used in TAC.
 
darth_freeman said:
Flexible bollards could be used at a few key spots but they would have to be removed during winter. This location on 403 is probably the worst because traffic from 410/401 collectors has to sit in a miserable queue until they can access the HOV lane, which is lightly used only by 401 express traffic at the start.
Click to expand...
Don't forget they are now adding a 401 EB to 403 SB ramp. They will also be forced into this queue.

In this area, the "privileged" drivers coming from the express are across several lane to get to the right exit at Eglinton, Eastgate or Cawthra. Then all the 403 Collector traffic basically gets funneled into a single lane (its actually 2, but 1 of those ends in 100m) to merge with the 403 express. Then within another kilometer, the 403 Express drivers again cut across several lanes to exit at Hurontario as the on-ramp from Eastgate is trying to merge onto the highway.
My solution:
  1. Maybe close the Express to Collector transfer (just south of 401). Let those 401 Collector cars get into the 401 Collector near Etobicoke Creek if they want to exit at Eglinton or Cawthra.
  2. Move the 403 Express/Collector merge north by ~500m (requires a couple of sign supports to be removed). If #1 is done, this merge could be moved even farther north.
  3. Eliminate the HOV lane (make it start closer to Central Parkway where the freeway straightens out). This way, you could likely get an extra lane under the Eastgate off-ramp. (You can save some space without the buffer, by narrowing the shoulders, and you can move the right shoulder a bit closer to the bridge abutment).
  4. Move the Hurontario off-ramp to be before the Eastgate on-ramp. This would be a 2 lane exit ramp that essentially goes through the edge of the hydro corridor. 10.jpg
  5. The Eastgate on-ramp would have a fork. Either keep right to merge onto 403 (note that the Hurontario 0ff-ramp has been moved, so there is no weaving occurring here). Or, keep right and merge onto the newly created Hurontario exit ramps. It requires a new bridge over Central Parkway , the relocation of some high mast light poles, and construction of some retaining walls (or you could cut down all those trees).
  6. Add an extra lane under Hurontario bridge and extend to Mavis.
 

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BurlOak said:
Don't forget they are now adding a 401 EB to 403 SB ramp. They will also be forced into this queue.

In this area, the "privileged" drivers coming from the express are across several lane to get to the right exit at Eglinton, Eastgate or Cawthra. Then all the 403 Collector traffic basically gets funneled into a single lane (its actually 2, but 1 of those ends in 100m) to merge with the 403 express. Then within another kilometer, the 403 Express drivers again cut across several lanes to exit at Hurontario as the on-ramp from Eastgate is trying to merge onto the highway.
Click to expand...

Good points. I was thinking of an even simpler solution that could be implemented immediately, is just force one of the "express" lanes to drop just before the merge with the "collectors". The collectors could then keep 2 full lanes plus a 3rd ending lane (where the 2nd lane currently ends). This should be a better balance (express has two lanes to start, but between the early transfer to collectors and HOV forming one lane should be adequate).

Another reason bollards should be considered on this stretch is due to the curvature. Someone looking in their mirror will have a hard time seeing vehicles coming around the corner. Hwy 404 has a similar curvy part but I don't think traffic gets backed up as much in that area (unlike here, where it's stopped every PM rush hour).
 
Coming back from Duton to London last night, have to used the back roads, as they were tearing down Mills Rd bridge, that close the 401 in both direction. This is a part of 6 year project to widen and upgrade the 401 west of 402 with a concrete medium.

Everything is 2 lanes, using the eastbound lanes while the westbound is rebuilt for just over 10 km at this time.

As of June 22, the 401 is reduce to 2 lanes each way between Westchester and Dorchester.
 
drum118 said:
Coming back from Duton to London last night, have to used the back roads, as they were tearing down Mills Rd bridge, that close the 401 in both direction. This is a part of 6 year project to widen and upgrade the 401 west of 402 with a concrete medium.
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Nope. No widening, no concrete median.

Seems like a waste - may as well use the rebuild as an opportunity to upgrade the thing.

Website: http://hwy401reconstruction.ca/
 
High-tension cable barrier system for the median. Wouldn't be surprised to see some of the same on parts of 402, 416, west 403, and maybe north 400.
 
44 North said:
High-tension cable barrier system for the median. Wouldn't be surprised to see some of the same on parts of 402, 416, west 403, and maybe north 400.
Click to expand...
To be fair, the median barrier is much more expensive as much more elaborate drainage improvements are required. This isn't the old wood post 3 cable railing Ontario had in the 1960's to 1980's, it's approved as a TL-4 barrier (for moderate trucks).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_barrier
201161211738_wood_guard.jpg

tl4-4-highway-cable-barrier-07-500x280.jpg
 
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