Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[Johnny Au]

The 407ETR will increase the toll rates by February 1: https://www.407etr.com/en/tolls/rate-charts/new-rate-chart-light.html

Compare with the 2013 rates, a huge increase: https://www.407etr.com/en/highway/news/news-release/2012/news-release2012-12-31.html

Thank you Mike Harris and his lack of common sense.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I wish if it's possible that Ontario can fire the 407 ETR company.

That can only happen if the company breaks the law in some way or do something equal to that. Raising tolls to impossible levels (ie $1000/mm just to exaggerate) still won’t get rid of them, they need to do something illegal.

 

[Randomguy]

The peak hour tolls on the 407 are the market rate. If they were much lower, the 407 would be the same parking lot as all of the other highways. While the sale of the 407 was bad move, it is, IMHO, a separate thing from the toll rate. The 407 also IMHO shows that we should be tolling all of the freeways to drastically reduce traffic (and total traffic volume) and improve government revenue.

 

[Fritter]

Everyone complains about the tolls on the 407 ETR, but I still see tens of thousands of cars using it every day.

 

[Haljackey]

One of Ontario's last cloverleafs to get a makeover.

Current location:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.8542018,-81.27355,1446m/data=!3m1!1e3

Redesign:

New article:
http://www.lfpress.com/2018/02/02/m...-overpass-preferred-for-moving-farm-machinery

 

[TransitBart]

One of Ontario's last cloverleafs to get a makeover.

Current location:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@42.8542018,-81.27355,1446m/data=!3m1!1e3

Redesign:

New article:
http://www.lfpress.com/2018/02/02/m...-overpass-preferred-for-moving-farm-machinery

Why is eliminating cloverleafs an improvement?

 

[adrianaliu]

Why is eliminating cloverleafs an improvement?

weaving

 

[TransitBart]

weaving

While I understand this conceptually, is there any place with diagrams or an explanation of this?

 

[Kitsune]

Heres a link to the PIC ... https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qtOC_yvAx-iYd5s1Ew1JN3UAUgDiDaHS/view

source was from the project website... https://sites.google.com/dillon.ca/10bridgereplacements .

 

[innsertnamehere]

While I understand this conceptually, is there any place with diagrams or an explanation of this?

basically you have people exiting the highway slowing down in the same place people entering the highway need to be speeding up, as they share an on/off ramp merge space.

 

[Neil]

The cloverleaf at 401 & hwy 62 in Belleville is also one that needs to go. Downright dangerous.

 

[darth_freeman]

The peak hour tolls on the 407 are the market rate. If they were much lower, the 407 would be the same parking lot as all of the other highways. While the sale of the 407 was bad move, it is, IMHO, a separate thing from the toll rate. The 407 also IMHO shows that we should be tolling all of the freeways to drastically reduce traffic (and total traffic volume) and improve government revenue.

Everyone complains about the tolls on the 407 ETR, but I still see tens of thousands of cars using it every day.

407ETR tolls will always outpace inflation because they have to account for:

1. Staff salaries (cost of living adjustments for inflation)
2. Constant widening means more area to maintain
3. Constant population and employment growth along the highway and outskirts of GTA
4. Constant toll increases to combat congestion on sections that already fully widened (410 t0 404)

All these combined mean that things are only going to get much more expensive. This is why the 407 transitway is good long term planning. The preliminary designs are mostly complete for the busiest sections of 407: http://www.407transitway.com/

I suspect the construction ball will get rolling when tolls hit $1 per km (probably in 10-15 years) and will be completed by the time we hit $2/km tolls.

 

[Neutrino]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4005796/...odels-for-metro-vancouver-tolls-driving-fees/

Vancouver pushing forward with its road pricing initiative. Could any of this work in Toronto?

@darth_freeman Seems like 407 tolls will also well outpace wage growth.

 

[Megaton327]

407ETR tolls will always outpace inflation because they have to account for:

1. Staff salaries (cost of living adjustments for inflation)
2. Constant widening means more area to maintain
3. Constant population and employment growth along the highway and outskirts of GTA
4. Constant toll increases to combat congestion on sections that already fully widened (410 t0 404)

All these combined mean that things are only going to get much more expensive. This is why the 407 transitway is good long term planning. The preliminary designs are mostly complete for the busiest sections of 407: http://www.407transitway.com/

I suspect the construction ball will get rolling when tolls hit $1 per km (probably in 10-15 years) and will be completed by the time we hit $2/km tolls.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4005796/...odels-for-metro-vancouver-tolls-driving-fees/

Vancouver pushing forward with its road pricing initiative. Could any of this work in Toronto?

@darth_freeman Seems like 407 tolls will also well outpace wage growth.

407 tolls will match the pace of what people are willing to pay to use the 407.

It's a simple equation. Toll Rate X Number of Vehicles = Income. As you raise the tolls, # of vehicles drops; as you lower the tolls, # of vehicles rises.

They will keep raising the tolls and watching how many people stop taking the highway until the loss in ridership means they are losing money despite the higher tolls. At that point, they stop raising the tolls and wait until more people are taking the highway due to being fed up with congestion on non-toll routes. Then they raise the tolls again until the loss in ridership cuts into their income. Wash, rinse, repeat. Supply and demand 101.

 

[W. K. Lis]

In 1973, the tolls on the Burlington Skyway were removed. See link. Opened 1958.

In 1973, the tolls on the Garden City Skyway were removed. See link. Opened 1963.