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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

darth_freeman said:
No point bemoaning the loss of what would be today $5M+ single family homes to connect downtown Toronto to the rest of the world (Gardiner/Lake Shore provides access between Airport & USA to downtown).
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You don't absolutely have to have a highway penetrate directly to downtown from multiple directions in order to have a successful city. Vancouver and San Francisco are fine examples of cities without urban freeways.

Arguably, not having that highway would also mean that the rail line would have had more importance in linking the west to downtown, and the Lakeshore line would be much more developed to compensate for the lack of a highway.

And all those "$5M+ single family homes" would be a nice addition to the property tax base, compared to an ongoing operational expense for maintaining a highway.

In general, urban highways are a poor investment and just lead to displacement of jobs and residents from the inner city to the suburbs.
 
I-80 parallels Market Street from less than a kilometre away, so even though the Embarcadero is gone, along with the I-280, I'd say that San Fran still has urban freeways.

When the Gardiner was built, there weren't other options on the horizon for moving people about a growing city: the car was the thing in the 1960s. Trying to pretend that this city could have done anything else at the time is not to understand our past. Only 10 years later, the Spadina Expressway was stopped, however, and it took an import from New York City for that to happen.

Without the highway, yes, we would have had to beef up rail services significantly, but that just wasn't the era for that type of investment.

Today, I think that talk about removing the Gardiner (other that the portion between Jarvis and the Don) is still fantasizing. It's going to take us years to upgrade our rail infrastructure, just to transport the growth in the number of people that we expect will be transiting around: the infrastructure is not expected to relieve the need for the Gardiner.

42
 
interchange42 said:
I-80 parallels Market Street from less than a kilometre away, so even though the Embarcadero is gone, along with the I-280, I'd say that San Fran still has urban freeways.

When the Gardiner was built, there weren't other options on the horizon for moving people about a growing city: the car was the thing in the 1960s. Trying to pretend that this city could have done anything else at the time is not to understand our past. Only 10 years later, the Spadina Expressway was stopped, however, and it took an import from New York City for that to happen.

Without the highway, yes, we would have had to beef up rail services significantly, but that just wasn't the era for that type of investment.

Today, I think that talk about removing the Gardiner (other that the portion between Jarvis and the Don) is still fantasizing. It's going to take us years to upgrade our rail infrastructure, just to transport the growth in the number of people that we expect will be transiting around: the infrastructure is not expected to relieve the need for the Gardiner.

42
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An extremely realistic as opposed to idealistic assessment.
 
Megaton327 said:
That's a massive over-exaggeration. While the Gardiner is a critical piece of infrastructure, Toronto was not some remote island with no roads in or out until the gardiner was built, "not connected to the rest of the world". There were, and still are, many other ways in/out of downtown.
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You could either pick Dundas or Lake Shore from the west (and Lake Shore was not a 6 lane road like it is today). Without the Gardiner I wonder if Toronto would have ever surpassed Montreal as the financial hub of Canada. The great Montreal exodus of the 70's used this infrastructure and many of the anglophones settled in the west with the good highways and the GO train to get to their shiny new offices (Sun Life, RBC, etc)
 
looked like some final paving work going on on the 410 south today (big hint, I guess, is the newly paved stuff is getting white lines not those "god awful, disappear in the rain, orange" lines).
 
TOareaFan said:
looked like some final paving work going on on the 410 south today (big hint, I guess, is the newly paved stuff is getting white lines not those "god awful, disappear in the rain, orange" lines).
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Speaking of the 410:
Good afternoon,

AECOM has been retained by the Ontario Ministry of Transportation (MTO) to undertake the Highway 410 Improvements from Eglinton Avenue to Mayfield Road Detail Design and Class Environmental Assessment Study (G.W.P.: 2042-13-00, G.W.P.: 2369-15-00, G.W.P.: 2381-15-00). Please review the attached Notice of Detail Design Commencement for further details.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us.

Regards

The project includes:
  • G.W.P. 2042-13-00:
    • Rehabilitation of Bovaird Drive Bridge (Site 24-469/1&2) and Vodden Street Bridge (Site 24-475)
    • Localized pavement repairs (from Bovaird Drive to Mayfield Road)
    • Rehabilitation of ramps and crossing roads within the MTO’s right-of-way from Bovaird Drive to Mayfield Road
    • 'Foundations remediation at Sandalwood Parkway (Site 24-739), Mayfield Road
(Site 24-738), and Bovaird Drive to Mall Access (Site 24-741)
  • G.W.P. 2369-15-00:
    • Rehabilitation of Steeles Avenue Bridge (Site 24-488/1&2) and Courtney Park Drive Bridge (Site 24-441/1&2)
    • Culvert rehabilitation (Site 24-580/c)
  • G.W.P. 2381-15-00:
    • Rehabilitation of Derry Road Bridge (Site 24-495)
    • Culvert rehabilitation (Site 24-577/c)
The project limits are located within the City of Brampton, City of Mississauga and the Regional Municipality of Peel (refer to the enclosed Key Plan). The purpose of this letter is to notify you of the commencement of this Detail Design
study. This project is following the approved planning process for a Group ‘C’ project under the MTO Class Environmental Assessment for Provincial Transportation Facilities (2000). An Environmental Screening Document (ESD) will be prepared to document the study process, design details, consultation undertaken during the study, and potential environmental issues and mitigation measures. The ESD will not be made available for public review and comment, but can be made available to interested stakeholders upon request.

AECOM
30 Leek Cres., 4th Floor
Richmond Hill, ON
L4B 4N4
Canada
www.aecom.com

There is an opportunity at any time during the study for interested persons to provide input to the Project Team including comments and information regarding the study. Comments are being collected to assist MTO with the design and to meet the requirements of the Ontario Environmental Assessment Act. This material will be maintained on file for use during the study and may be included in project documentation. Information collected will be used in accordance
with the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act. With the exception of personal information, all comments will become part of the public record. If you have any accessibility requirements in order to participate in this project, please contact one of the Project Team members listed below. If you would like to provide comments, or if you require further information regarding this project, please feel free to contact me by phone at 905-882-4401 ext. 3522 or by email at
tim.sorochinsky@aecom.com. You may also contact the MTO Project Manager, Wan Chi Ma, by phone at 416-235-4068 or by email at WanChi.Ma@ontario.ca

Sincerely,
AECOM
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innsertnamehere said:
Lake Shore was a 6 lane road built in the 1940's. They ripped down a chunk of Parkdale to build that as well.. but still.
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Near Sunnyside I knew it was 4 lanes until 1950. I assumed it became 6 lanes at the same time the Gardiner was built (1955-56). With it going right through an amusement park until the 50's I don't know how they would have widened it.
 
Johnny Au said:
To be fair, it needs more sources, not just from James Bow. It also needs newspaper articles as well. Yes, Airport Road extends all the way to Stayner, Ontario.
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But there was nothing in that article that wasn't shown in photos. And why would newspapers have anything to say about Airport Rd? And going from the GTA to Stayner is significant for a busy, named, non-highway road.

What I really find galling is that the article was probably deleted by roadgeeks who know the road and the truthfulness about the article. Why would they want to? I certainly wouldn't delete info I know to be true, even if unreferenced. It's not as if Wikipedia staff themselves are going to get involved.
 
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Anyone have any info on what construction seems to be starting up at the 401/Leslie exit ramp? I noticed the other day they have equipment there now as well as new traffic signals put up and currently covered.
 
they are slightly reconfiguring the off ramps from my understanding. I think they may be adding an additional lane on them.
 
Thanks for the link. I might be reading this correctly, but they want to move the whole highway 18 metres south? That sounds like quite the monumental task.
 
Is this the correct discussion for 401 construction in mississauga?

I have some questions on what's happening there. (What a mess )
 
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