Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[jamincan]

The original plan was for Hwy 6 to continue on it's own carriageway so that there was a seamless connection; however, the plan was changed so that there either one or two lanes (I forget the exact configuration) will be continuous for Hwy 6, but that there will otherwise just be a combined 401/6 roadway with a 10-lane cross-section. As I recall, the reasoning was that the vast majority of drivers would be transferring from 6 to the 401 anyway so that the four-carriageway design would actually be less efficient.

As for highway numbering in KW, despite MTO numbers, Hwy 8 refers exclusively to the section between 7/8 and 401 in local nomenclature. 7/8+85 is the Conestoga Pkwy/Parkway and sometimes 85 if referring to the section in Waterloo. Hwy 7 refers the highway between Guelph and KW, as well as the highway to Stratford (most people wouldn't call this 8).

My proposal would be to eliminate Hwy 8 entirely in Hamilton and Waterloo and instead have it end in Stratford at Hwy 7. I think it may be downloaded in Hamilton and Cambridge already, and that part of the highway functions more as a local route anyway. The Freeport Bypass between the 401 and Conestoga Parkway would then be number 408 and would continue north on 85 to St. Jacobs, being cosigned for a short section on the Conestoga Pkwy. The non-expressway portion of Hwy 85 could be renumbered as an extended Hwy 86. My inclination would to then leave 7 and 6 alone, as they actually represent important intraprovincial routes, unlike 8/85, but the freeway portion could also be renumbered as a 400-series highway eventually (437?). I've illustrated the changes below:

 

[BurlOak]

I see a (red) Highway 408 going from highway 401 to St. Jacobs. There is also a (yellow) Highway 477 from New Hamburg (maybe eventually Stratford) to Guelph.

Here is the interchange with highway 466 through Guelph to highway 401. I think 466 would end here and the short Morrison by-pass would just be called highway 6. (unless they planned on making all of highway 6 between 401 and 403 freeway, in which case it would all Hwy 466.

Maybe eventually (if highway 6 between 401 and 403 is not made into a freeway) a new alignment Hwy 408 would connect 401 (between Cambridge and Guelph) and 403 (between Brantford and Hamilton). (It would only be called 424 if it went west of Cambridge and Brantford).

 

[nfitz]

That makes no sense. The primary roadway is from St. Jacobs to New Hamburg. Having a "408" change from that roadway to the new Highway 7 doesn't make sense. (nor does the current scheme).

Best to leave them all alone. I don't think you want to be tempting people to drive from Milton to Stratford and New Hamburg by turning north on the Hanlon!!

 

[BurlOak]

When Conestoga Parkway was a self contained short freeway, maybe it made sense to call that one highway (because it was the only one). Now that there is a network of longer freeways, it makes sense to have logical numbering for them all.

408 is the north-south highway from St
Jacobs to Cambridge (401) and maybe eventually to Hamilton Mountain (and the mid-peninsula highway).

477 is the east-west highway from New Hamburg to Guelph, with maybe extension west to Stratford and east to Acton, Georgetown, Bolton, etc.

466 is the north-south highway from Guelph to 401, and maybe eventually Hamilton.

Pretty simple to keep track of.

 

[jamincan]

Also, the primary route of most people in KW is along 8/85.

 

[nfitz]

When Conestoga Parkway was a self contained short freeway, maybe it made sense to call that one highway (because it was the only one). Now that there is a network of longer freeways, it makes sense to have logical numbering for them all.

408 is the north-south highway from St
Jacobs to Cambridge (401) and maybe eventually to Hamilton Mountain (and the mid-peninsula highway).

477 is the east-west highway from New Hamburg to Guelph, with maybe extension west to Stratford and east to Acton, Georgetown, Bolton, etc.

466 is the north-south highway from Guelph to 401, and maybe eventually Hamilton.

Pretty simple to keep track of.

I don't see the need to change the numbers. Simplest thing to keep track of is to leave it all alone.

The Conestoga doesn't even meet 400-standards with the 90 km/hr speed limit.

 

[Johnny Au]

Highway 477 could also be extended to Highway 400 and run along Mayfield and Kirby.

 

[nfitz]

I recall seeing plans for just 2 carriageways. The 401 will be 10 lanes from Milton to highway 8, with an additional lane added through the highway 6 interlining, from what I remember.

It looks like we were all correct.

The 2009 Highway 6 EA had separate carriageways. However this was amended in late 2012 Transportation Environmental Study Report for the 401 from Hespeler Road to Halton Region - http://www.highway401-hespeler-halton.ca/highway401/reports.asp

There's an inset in Exhibit 7-1c showing the new lane alignment between the two 6's.

 

[BurlOak]

Also, the primary route of most people in KW is along 8/85.

I believe 8 and 85 are not connected?

When I first read this, I wondered if you meant Hwy 8 down to 401, or 8 towards Stratford. The current numbering is very confusing. It takes 3 highways to get to Waterloo.

Maybe 485 could go from 401 to St. Jacobs.

 

[Haljackey]

Vid of the 401 through part of Greater Toronto

 

[jamincan]

Oops, yeah, as I stated before, Hwy 8 in local nomenclature pretty much exclusively refers to the Freeport Bypass connecting the 401 and Conestoga Pkwy.

 

[nfitz]

The current numbering is very confusing. It takes 3 highways to get to Waterloo.

No, two ... the bypass from the 401 to the Conestoga, and the Conestoga.

The Conestoga is only a single highway, no matter how many different numbers the province gives it. I can only assume you don't actually drive on it very often, if you treat it as more than one.

 

[Steve X]

The older part of Conestoga isn't even built to 400's standard. It will never get a 400's designation unless it's extended a very far distance.

 

[BurlOak]

Just like 406 through St. Catharines. I think that portion is just called highway 6 because it is not up to 400 standards

 

[jamincan]

What exactly about the Conestoga Pkwy isn't up to standards (or the Freeport Bypass)? There's no RIRO on it like Hwy 400 at Canal Rd, for example, and the 406 in St. Catherine's has even lower speed limits. Personally it just seems like the MTO doesn't really have a clear-cut policy about Ontario's expressway network and that decisions in that respect are mostly just ad hoc.

FWIW, I personally don't care about the road numbering all that much; however, the situation in KW is more than a little confusing for people who aren't familiar with the local road network. Some form of rationalization of the numbering system is certainly warranted.