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Roads: Keep the Gardiner, fix it, or get rid of it? (2005-2014)

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Should we preserve the Gardiner?


Mar 31 2010

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Read More: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/you...8--your-city-my-city-don-t-tear-down-gardiner

Entire Blog: http://thestar.blogs.com/yourcitymy...ay-lets-preserve-history-and-be-creative.html

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Adam Zendel is a master’s student studying urban planning at York University’s Faculty of Environmental Studies. Born and raised in Toronto, he has a passion for the city and the built environment. His areas of interest include urban intensification, mixed-use development and redevelopment, retail spaces and transportation.

He writes:

“The Gardiner Expressway is one of the main transportation arteries that connect our city. While I would like everyone to arrive at each of their destinations by public transit, that is a completely unrealistic desire as cars are such an intrinsic part of our transportation network.

“I have heard of many different plans for dealing with the deliberately unkempt and deteriorating elevated section of the Gardener Expressway and I think that any plan that involves demolishing it and putting traffic at grade will be a huge mistake. We have already seen the increases in travel time for those who must use the east section of the Gardiner that was demolished and incorporated into Lake Shore Blvd. a number of years ago and I don’t think we want to repeat this mistake again.

“Burying the Gardiner — well, I think all I need to mention is Boston’s Big Dig and that idea can be sent out the window.

“A proposal to cover the elevated section of the Gardiner with a suspended green roof that would also function as an elevated park is called Toronto’s Green Ribbon. I like this idea as it retains one of the main arteries and improves on it."

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We should make it even bigger! And spend who knows how much money to put a narrow park on top that would be a haven for drug dealers!

Heck, why stop at the Gardiner? Let's cover the 401 as well!
 
I like the suicide fence on the park itself, but the lack of one on the ramps up.

No one would use it, and it would be windswept, noisy, dead, unkempt, and full of discarded needles and condoms. It also requires rebuilding the crumbling Gardiner--a Dumb Idea.
 
The idea of putting a narrow park over the Gardiner that requires people to go up stairs (or even elevators) is nonsense. Nobody would use it. If on the other hand, there were enough room on either side of the expressway to incrementally raise the grade from street level to over the Gardiner, the idea of a park could work. It's not possible however, since most of the downtown portion of the Gardiner is now hemmed in tightly with condos on either side.

If they're not going to tear it down, the best they can do is to beautify the sections under and around important crossroads.
 
This is just stupid! Why would somebody climb up there, right on top of the traffic, with all the noise, fumes and isolation, when just a block away you have all the waterfront parks? (H2O, Harbourfront, Music Garden, Sugar Beach, Sherbourne Park, as well as stores/restaurants on Queens Quay and Harbourfront) Not only will it largely sit unused but now it will be almost twice as tall and will block out the sky and sunlight. If people think the Gardiner is a barrier now, wait until this monster is twice the height. The guy that wrote this has some kind of agenda and it's not to improve the city or the waterfront.
 
MetroMan said:
If they're not going to tear it down, the best they can do is to beautify the sections under and around important crossroads.
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Changing the light timing on Lake Shore to be a standard 90 seconds instead of ~5 minutes would make a huge difference. That, and allow crossing on all sides of the street for Spadina, Jarvis, and anywhere else. I wouldn't really notice Gardiner when walking except that I'm forced to stand under it for an excessively long time compared to most pedestrian crossings.
 
Another idea could be to put affordable housing and retail space up there. People would for sure climb up for that.
 
Nobody would bother climbing up there? I think the Highline in NY and the promenade plantee in Paris proves thats not true. Sure this isn't Manhattan, but its getting pretty close down there. People would climb up there simply because it would be a unique space where you could walk across the downtown without ever worrying about cars.

However, I think it looks pretty damn ugly as rendered. Eventually it won't be fit for traffic, and maybe then will be the time to stick a very long park up there and enclose some of the underside for some interesting retail/commercial/entertainment spaces.
 
^Exactly. I can't believe people actually think if this was built nobody would use it. This would get worldwide attention, be heavily published and talked about, and people would travel to see it. This isnt some community park off some laneway, this is a massive park which will have amazing views of downtown and the lake - it will function like Montreal's Mount Royal (which, btw, is much MUCH more difficult to get to then this proposal, and it is extremely popular).

And about this creating an even bigger barrier than what's already there... it wont. The gardiner is not a barrier at all, it's just falling apart and ugly. If it were fixed up, painted, and if the street and sidewalks of Lake shore were fixed up, it would not be as much of an issue. Furthermore, the asses of all the buildings in the area face onto lakeshore making it even worse. If the underside was lined with retail or public spaces, it would be much nicer. Why does this proposal work? Because with its construction will most likely bring all of the above.

On the other hand, it is expensive and unrealistic. The concept is great, though.
 
jwill said:
Nobody would bother climbing up there? I think the Highline in NY and the promenade plantee in Paris proves thats not true. Sure this isn't Manhattan, but its getting pretty close down there. People would climb up there simply because it would be a unique space where you could walk across the downtown without ever worrying about cars.

However, I think it looks pretty damn ugly as rendered. Eventually it won't be fit for traffic, and maybe then will be the time to stick a very long park up there and enclose some of the underside for some interesting retail/commercial/entertainment spaces.
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Big difference - They're not on top of operating freeways. And they didn't add a second storey to make it happen.

MBS said:
^Exactly. I can't believe people actually think if this was built nobody would use it. This would get worldwide attention, be heavily published and talked about, and people would travel to see it. This isnt some community park off some laneway, this is a massive park which will have amazing views of downtown and the lake - it will function like Montreal's Mount Royal (which, btw, is much MUCH more difficult to get to then this proposal, and it is extremely popular).

And about this creating an even bigger barrier than what's already there... it wont. The gardiner is not a barrier at all, it's just falling apart and ugly. If it were fixed up, painted, and if the street and sidewalks of Lake shore were fixed up, it would not be as much of an issue. Furthermore, the asses of all the buildings in the area face onto lakeshore making it even worse. If the underside was lined with retail or public spaces, it would be much nicer. Why does this proposal work? Because with its construction will most likely bring all of the above.

On the other hand, it is expensive and unrealistic. The concept is great, though.
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View of the lake? There are buildings between the Gardiner and the lake. Views are much better at the actual waterfront.

Why does everyone think the Gardiner is crumbling, or even "deliberately unkempt", implying that it's not maintained? If the overpass collapse in Montreal did anything it made the inspection and maintenance of these structures all the more meticulous. The Gardiner could be with us for decades.
 
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