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Roads: Keep the Gardiner, fix it, or get rid of it? (2005-2014)

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GraphicMatt said:
On the flip-side, though, there seems to be a group that just seems to have nothing more than a gut feeling that removing any piece of the Gardiner would lead to complete and total traffic chaos. "Don't even bother doing a study using sophisticated traffic modeling techniques," they say. "My gut tells me we can't live without it."
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Well, technically removing any piece of the Gardiner WOULD result in chaos. Being an elevated road, the gap created would be hard for cars to jump. Fun, I suppose, if you can build up enough speed - but good luck trying that during rushhour.

Wake me up when we're in the car-less future. Hopefully we'll have hoverboards and teleportation too, a food replicator would be nice (hate cooking).
 
This is a ridiculous proposal. How many people would actually use this park? Even if we forgot about the substantial accessibility issues, a wide open space this high up and this close to the lake would be absolutely awful in the winter, and if plows couldn't get up there, completely useless too. All the activities that are supposed to go on up on this linear park should and will go on on the actual waterfront. I'd rather have all of those activities (walking, cycling, kiosks, etc.) concentrated along the waterfront itself instead of diluted.

We'd get more bang for our buck by roofing over the SRT to keep it running in the winter. It probably wouldn't cost much more.
 
Even I think it's too much :p But it's been the only proposal that's caught the media's attention other than tearing it down - so at least it opens up more dialogue about what to do with it (since we're most likely keeping it all anyway).
 
Whoaccio said:
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Anyways, I'm not sure why people are so incredulous about this. I'll admit its probably not the most technically thought out proposal, but there doesn't seem to be anything so terribly implausible about it. Building a pedestrian structure is pretty simple, all things considered. Based on the previous image, this seems less complex than the Charing Cross bridge expansions. Imagine building new spans along a bridge opened in 1864, using the same foundations. The more conspiracy minded side of my brains thinks part of the Toronto blogosphere refuses to acknowledge that the Gardiner could ever be rehabilitated. That there is something so fundamentally so un-urban and misplaced about the concept of viaducts.
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If this scheme goes ahead, I hope you enjoy walking atop a noisy expressway. Have fun.

The other proposal of this ilk, the Viaduct, is visually interesting and more multi-functional. It cuts a very sexy swath across the bottom of Toronto -- Toronto could stand that. And the Viaduct designer has thought up a fresh idea, Toronto could stand that, too.
 
TonyV said:
If this scheme goes ahead, I hope you enjoy walking atop a noisy expressway. Have fun.
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It would be quieter on top than beside it.
 
We have a huge transportation infrastructure deficit. Huge. Billions need to be spent on the TTC and GO and suburban transit systems, and serious cash needs to be spent on keeping the existing road infrastructure up to scratch, or getting it back up there...

...while some people want to spend a pile of cash on tearing down the whole or parts of the Gardiner, some want to bury the whole or parts of it, wide multi-lane urban boulevards are good enough for others, while others see the need for a mega-million dollar skyscraping viaduct in its place (while never talking specifics about all the access ramps required), and now one guy wants to deck the Gardiner with a park that no-one can get to without a pile more concrete ramped up to it?

And this was presented at Znaimer's ideaCity09? People spent huge money for tickets to that conference, and they're getting this kind of codswallop for their bucks?

Yumpin yiminy.

42
 
I can't believe this "idea" is getting so much coverage in the media. Just silly...
 
This idea is absolutely ridiculous.
As far as I'm concerned, covering up a giant turd with flowers still makes it a giant turd (albeit a deceitful one.)

Toronto needs to bury the Gardiner, and cover up the rail corridor while they're at it.
 
christof53 said:
This idea is absolutely ridiculous.
As far as I'm concerned, covering up a giant turd with flowers still makes it a giant turd (albeit a deceitful one.)

Toronto needs to bury the Gardiner, and cover up the rail corridor while they're at it.
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well, if you bury it, it's still a giant turd. ;)
 
interchange42 said:
We have a huge transportation infrastructure deficit. Huge. Billions need to be spent on the TTC and GO and suburban transit systems, and serious cash needs to be spent on keeping the existing road infrastructure up to scratch, or getting it back up there...

...while some people want to spend a pile of cash on tearing down the whole or parts of the Gardiner, some want to bury the whole or parts of it, wide multi-lane urban boulevards are good enough for others, while others see the need for a mega-million dollar skyscraping viaduct in its place (while never talking specifics about all the access ramps required), and now one guy wants to deck the Gardiner with a park that no-one can get to without a pile more concrete ramped up to it?

And this was presented at Znaimer's ideaCity09? People spent huge money for tickets to that conference, and they're getting this kind of codswallop for their bucks?

Yumpin yiminy.

42
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Essentially I agree with you 42.

Let's be thankful, though, that we live in a place where it's okay to dream up schemes. Some schemes do come true even though some them are the wrong choices (like the elevated Gardiner in the first place).

Generally I'd like to see emphasis on all of the city-wide transit initiatives. My needs take me far and wide across this city, I can attest to the need for a well thought out, comprehensive transit system. Removal of the Gardiner once (as stated above) alternatives are in place is important to me. This city should not be so physically cut off from the lake. It's a psychological thing.

I feel that I must mention this: arguments about "all those ugly condos" always come up in the big Gardiner question and these arguments don't cut it with me. The vast majority of the condos are somewhat attractive, and having the population we have downtown is only a plus.

And you are right, the Viaduct proposal is short on details. It needs to be fleshed out a lot. Lovely concept, though.
 
Northern Light said:
This with all do apologies to a architect who seems to have done quite good work in the past......is a hare-brained scheme with no value whatsoever!

The cost to carry out such a project with all the new required supports would be enormous, I'm not sure what the number would be, but surely we're into the billions.

All that and no reduction in pollution, no new transportation improvements, further reductions in views of the Lake from the north and a park almost no one will use but you'd have to walk up the equivalent of an 6-storey building (or more) to get there.

I appreciate the idea take from the linear park along the old railway line in Manhattan......but the comparison doesn't work. That project is better compared with Toronto's beltline, a line either at grade or no more than 2-storeys above street level, and built and very low-incremental cost cause the rail bed and bridges are already there.

The Gardiner should, in due time, come down completely, in the short-term, I'll settle for the eastern stretch, and the rest can be just prettied up a little.
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I completely 10000% agree. This is so totally pointless to discuss...we might as well be discussing putting a dome over the city because its probably just as realistic and feasible.

This will not, and should not, even happen. Go back inside folks. There is nothing to see here.
 
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