Roads: Highway 7 North Kitchener-Guelph New Freeway Build

[BurlOak]

I thought the old plan, was that 7 just kept going east, squeezing in between the NE corner of Guelph and Guelph Lake, before dropping down to the alignment east of Guelph. But I don't think I've seen or heard much about that for 20-30 years.

North of Guelph Lake? Highway 477? A brand new Niagara Escarpment crossing north of Georgetown? Not that far off topic, unless this is meant for the fantasy thread.

Do you have any references for that highway number or alignment?

Didn't the Guelph to GTA plan end, with the decision during Part 1 of the GTA West Transportation Corridor to instead widen the 401 instead? I don't recall the alignment you show in that study.

Given the slew of threads just created, is mostly for that 401 widening, I'm not sure how Guelph to GTA is back on table.

A quick search finds that North of Guelph Lake was considered. Going south of the lake would require a freeway through the Valley and Conservation Area and would likely attract much more opposition - although it is a more direct route.
As for the name - it won't be 407 due to confusion with the toll highway.
And the current government found that this highway is not needed, but that may change.

 

[nfitz]

A quick search finds that North of Guelph Lake was considered. Going south of the lake would require a freeway through the Valley and Conservation Area and would likely attract much more opposition - although it is a more direct route.

I never looked at the GTA West studies much. I hadn't realized they'd tossed the more southern route. But I haven't seen anything for 20-30 years ... it could even be 1960s. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find any trace of it.

As for the name - it won't be 407 due to confusion with the toll highway.

Some said same of the 407 extension to 115, that because it would be owned by province, they wouldn't call it 407, to avoid confusion with the company. What did they call it? 407.

Who knows what they'll call it. Perhaps they simply call it 7. There's certainly over 400-class pieces of Highway 7 (and 11) that haven't been given 400-series numbers. By the time they build it, 407 might all be provincially owned again.

I looked in the Guelph official plan to see if there was any indication. There's some interesting text:

Road Improvement Alternatives for the East-West Corridor in North Guelph

a) The extension of the Hanlon Expressway north of Woodlawn Road to connect to the existing Highway 6 corridor in the vicinity of Marden and intersection improvements/turning lanes only on Woodlawn Road, between the existing Hanlon Expressway and Woolwich Street; or

b) The widening of Woodlawn Road between the existing Hanlon Expressway and Woolwich Street to 6 lanes, without the Hanlon Expressway northerly extension.​

So two options currently, one is not extending the Hanlon (highway 6).

Also, the Wellington County official plan, shows the alignment of the Highway 6 extension. See the extract below. There's two dashed black lines. One is the Highway 6 connection from Woodlawn Road to just north of Marden. The other is the new Highway 7 to Kitchener.

 

[Transportfan]

So Glasgow Street, that turned into Walter Street, and then turns into Wellington Street South, which becomes Wellington Street North, will now also turn into Shirley Street, which turns into Bingemans Centre Drive, that turns into Lackner that turns into Fairway Crescent that turns into Idle Creek Drive. But doesn't turn into Shirley Drive (which used to be called Wellington didn't it?)

"Wellington Street" is sufficient for both of those.

 

[nfitz]

"Wellington Street" is sufficient for both of those.

I'd think so - always seemed absurd to switch to "South" for a short block. They could change it too, if they are willing to renumber the 5 houses on Wellington Street S. 8 would become 10, 10 would become 8. 16 would become 6. 18 would become 4. And 22 would become 2. I'd think as there are both 16, 18, and 22 on both, they must get mail and pizzas mixed up enough ...

Still, it's not as annoying as calling it North and South rather than Wellington East and West - given the street runs a lot closer to east-west than north-south!

 

[timio]

Still, it's not as annoying as calling it North and South rather than Wellington East and West - given the street runs a lot closer to east-west than north-south!

Welcome to KW.

 

[Steve X]

I rather see some of the highways renumbered and remove all the discontinuous highway instead of just calling this project something like Hwy 477.

1. Many highway are disconnected thanks to Mike Harris. Highway 6, 7 and 8 all have multiple sections.
2. 407 is definitely not a good number for very obvious reasons.
3. The Conestoga Parkway (7/8/85) is very confusing to motorists. 85 doesn't start till north of this project. To get from the 401 to Waterloo, one will have to drive onto Hwy 8, then 7 /8 and it becomes finally 85. Why not have a single number from 401 to St. Jacobs?
4. This new 4 lane Hwy 7 cannot be called 407 either. It will connect directly to Halton Parkway. Halton Parkway will be eventually upgraded to a freeway and becomes Hwy 6.
5. Hwy 77 exists in Essex County connecting from 401 to Leamington. It's a major truck route for farms down there. Hwy 477 adds to the confusion.
6. Unlike back in 1917 were conventional highway 2 to 17 were designated to serve Ontario forming truck routes of the system, the 400 series highway have taken that spot. There is no need to keep the whole hwy 7 name across Ontario.


I would just renumber all the multiple sections and give freeways 400 series designations.

1. Designate Hwy 408 to this new 4 lane Hwy 7 and incorporate it into a 86km route by renaming the 7/8 from New Hamburg to Hwy 85, Hwy 6 along Halton Parkway and the Morrison Bypass. Eventually when Hwy 6 is twinned, Hwy 408 can be designated all the way to Hwy 403.
2. Designate Hwy 85 along with 7/8 and Freeport Diversion (Hwy 8 linking to Hwy 401) into Hwy 485. This creates one designation from Hwy 401 to Waterloo.
3. Hwy 8 will begin at New Hamburg as MTO doesn't want to build a freeway past New Hamburg.
4. Strip Hwy 7 completely in Southwestern Ontario. Hwy 7 would begin in Pickering and would be one segment only. Hwy 47 would be designated from Stratford to Hwy 4 where Hwy 7 current ends. The segment from Guelph to Georgetown can be designated Hwy 107 which turns into Peel RR 107.
5. Hwy 8 from Cambridge city limit to Hwy 5 can just become Hwy 5 since the current Hwy ends at Hwy 8.
6. Hwy 6 south of Guelph would be renumbered. Currently Hwy 6 is broken into many segments. When Hwy 6 reaches Hwy 401 and 403, it is technically disconnected. They are signed as a trailblazer "To Hwy 6" instead of concurrent highways 6/401.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.4485...6A!2e0!5s20160601T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.2904...ww!2e0!5s20160601T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
When they do twin the new Hwy 6 and extend it to Caledonia, they can designate it Hwy 414 and the conventional highway segment as Hwy 14.
7. Hwy 14, 47 and 107 aren't major highways back when they existed. I have chosen them to avoid confusion with old drivers.
8. Note I used the current alignment for Hwy 7/8 between Stratford and New Hamburg. MTO plans to bypass 60% of the current alignment with a new 4 lane divided limited access highway (not freeway) a couple kilometre south of the current alignment.

 

[Transportfan]

I'd think so - always seemed absurd to switch to "South" for a short block. They could change it too, if they are willing to renumber the 5 houses on Wellington Street S. 8 would become 10, 10 would become 8. 16 would become 6. 18 would become 4. And 22 would become 2. I'd think as there are both 16, 18, and 22 on both, they must get mail and pizzas mixed up enough ...

Still, it's not as annoying as calling it North and South rather than Wellington East and West - given the street runs a lot closer to east-west than north-south!

I was actually referring to the way you typed it as if it was two different streets, not the N-S splitting itself.

 

[salmonz]

Welcome to KW.

I actually know that road... Highway 8 North where it meets Hwy 7/8 & Hwy 85...
left lane = King St, middle lane = exit ramp to 7/8 Stratford, right lane hwy 85 transfer

 

[nfitz]

I was actually referring to the way you typed it as if it was two different streets, not the N-S splitting itself.

It's a name change. It also changes the angle there - more so than other spots, where only the name changes.

Will you still be able to drive across King Street at Wellington with the new LRT? I haven't driven down there for a while.

Whether it be King S, E, or W I don't know ... I'm pretty sure it isn't North. Though perhaps it should be called Shantz Hill Road North.

 

[timio]

It's a name change. It also changes the angle there - more so than other spots, where only the name changes.

Will you still be able to drive across King Street at Wellington with the new LRT? I haven't driven down there for a while.

Whether it be King S, E, or W I don't know ... I'm pretty sure it isn't North. Though perhaps it should be called Shantz Hill Road North.

I believe it's King W at this point. King E = 401 - Frederick (even with the section missing from Fairway to Montgomery), King W: Frederick - Union. King S: Union - Erb, King N: Erb to St Jacobs.

Yes, you will be able to cross at Wellington.

 

[salmonz]

Questions raised to the Ontario Government by MPP Michael Harris:

Question Enquiry of the Ministry — Will the Minister of Transportation provide: the names and job titles of all dedicated staff hired to exclusively work on the highway 7 (new) project between Kitchener and Guelph, as well as the timelines for completion of the Highway 7 expansion; specifically providing the construction schedule and timelines for each and every phase of the expansion project to completion.
Member Mr. Harris (Kitchener—Conestoga)
Date tabled September 21, 2016
Final answer November 15, 2016
Question number 62

Question Enquiry of the Ministry — Would the Minister of Transportation provide: a full accounting of the detailed deadlines and anticipated project delivery timelines for each phase of the Highway 7 Kitchener-to-Guelph expansion up to and including completion.
Member Mr. Harris (Kitchener—Conestoga)
Date tabled April 04, 2017
Question number 281

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/house-proceedings/written_questions.do?locale=en

 

[Duke-of-East-York]

So Glasgow Street, that turned into Walter Street, and then turns into Wellington Street South, which becomes Wellington Street North, will now also turn into Shirley Street, which turns into Bingemans Centre Drive, that turns into Lackner that turns into Fairway Crescent that turns into Idle Creek Drive. But doesn't turn into Shirley Drive (which used to be called Wellington didn't it?)

The current alignment of Shirley is no better...Caroline Street, becomes Bridgeport Road/Erb Street, which becomes Riverbend Drive which then goes into the alignment above, Shirley-Lackler-Fairway-Idle Creek.

 

[jamincan]

Waterloo Region has several of these.

The worst and most famous:
(9) Erbs Rd-Erb St-Bridgeport Rd-Riverbend Dr-Shirley Ave-Bingemans Centre Drive-Lackner Blvd-Fairway Cres-Idle Creek Dr

Post-construction, it will split into two slightly less ridiculous streets:
(4 or 5) Erbs Rd-Erb St-Bridgeport Rd-Riverbend Dr-?
(5 or 6) Wellington-?-Bingemans Centre Drive-Lackner Blvd-Fairway Cres-Idle Creek Dr
It's not clear to me yet how Shirley will be split up. Riverbend will continue across Wellington onto what is now Shirley, but Wellington will also continue onto another section that is now Shirley. I'm guessing that they will probably just rename the part of Shirley between Wellington and Bingemans Centre Drive one or the other and have Shirley continue on from Riverbend. Or, in the great tradition of the region, have Shirley Cres continue on from Riverbend and a short section of Shirley Ave between Wellington and Bingemans Centre Drive.

Others:

(5) Park-Jubilee-Courtland-Fairway-Kossuth (offers nice symmetry to the Erbs Rd-Idle Creek Dr one as they almost form a loop together)
(4) Manitou-Doon Village Rd-Doon Mills Dr-Chestnut Hill Cres
(3) Northfield-Westmount-Max Becker
(3) Erbsville-Ira Needles-Trussler

The maddening thing is that despite all of these being continuous streets without any turn-offs, a lot of these street names continue on elsewhere. Bridgeport, for example, also intersects Erb despite Erb becoming Bridgeport. Doon Village Rd continues on another street which doesn't even intersect the original. Westmount continues north at an intersection, but the street itself continues straight and becomes Northfield. Both Erbsville and Trussler have non-contiguous stubs that branch off the Erbsville-Ira Needles-Trussler street, although they at least had the sense to rename the Erbsville Rd. stub to Erbsville Ct. instead.

 

[KevinT]

New web site available for this project:

http://newhighway7.ca/

 

[timio]

News article: http://www.therecord.com/news-story...-7-will-begin-to-take-shape-in-2017-says-mto/