Steve X
Senior Member
When it comes to politicians, they don't see it that way. Spending too much in a fiscal year just leads to a huge deficit and make sit harder to balance the budget.
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Roads: Highway 401 Widening - Highway 8 to Highway 410 (MTO, U/C, Planned)
- Thread starter salmonz
- Start date
rbt
Senior Member
Capital works (expense or sale of them) don't appear in the annual budget in Ontario and do not impact the deficit as a result; interest on debt and any required principal payments do go into the annual budget. That rule was changed shortly after Harris used the 407 sale to balance the budget.
There are, however, still limits on how much government can borrow in any given year before those financing the debt demand a higher interest rate.
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eltodesukane
New Member
"...after Harris used the 407 sale to balance the budget."
The 407 sale was a major blunder we are still paying for.
The 407 sale was a major blunder we are still paying for.
Haljackey
Active Member
Between Highway 8 and 407, 8 lanes + 2 HOV lanes would suffice. I am surprised collectors are being built west of the 407 interchange- that seems like overkill to me.
An extra auxiliary lane may be warranted between Highways 8 and 24, and between the two Highway 6 exits.
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Out of scope for this project but further widening of the 401 to the west may eventually include 8 lanes between the 402 and 403, with some extra auxiliary lanes through London. And of course 6 lanes from Tilbury to the 402, which has already been approved.
To the east, the collectors are planned to be extended from Brock Road to the 412, 8 + 2 HOV to the 418, and then 8 lanes to the 35/115. From there ultimately 6 lanes all the way to the 416 interchange. The last remaining 4-lane stretch of the 401 would be from the 416 to the Quebec border, and even that could be widened eventually some decades from now.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
Widening the 401.makes sense.
As the traffic on it's nuts.
As the traffic on it's nuts.
afransen
Senior Member
It won't work. Induced demand and all that. We need tolls. Peak period traffic should pay for highways as that is what drives the size of the infrastructure. off-peak should just pay at most wear and tear.
Deadpool X
Senior Member
What are the probable timelines for this widening?
Transportfan
Senior Member
CF1
New Member
Most likely man would have started living on mars by then.
For urban areas, I agree. But for rural stretches these widenings are needed, in no small part due to the volume of truck traffic this corridor carries.
afransen
Senior Member
Truck traffic can pay tolls, too. Indeed, it does disproportionate damage to the infrastructure.
stevensontransit
New Member
I've seen this for a while now.
drum118
Superstar
And you pay that toll in higher price on what you are buying.
The big issues and it goes back to the 40-50s when railway crews wouldn't change with time and railways couldn't do what it is now doing. Trucking took a huge chunk out of railway market since trains were taking far to long to get from c to y as it had to hand parts of trains off to one railroad who had to hand off to another as well broken down and made up over and over. One reason way there are very few railways due to mergers to eliminate handing off. At the same time, motor power had to be change at the hand off to the point it now can run from coast to coast with crew changing along the route. Crew change takes about 10 minute these days compare to an hour or 2 cutting power off a train and adding a new set.
Train were under 100 cars long compare to trains over 100 long today as well carrying more tonnage. Railways are still trying to regain the lost market and been slow doing so. Track infrastructure is needed to be upgraded to handle longer trains, less impact on crossing and larger yards. Trucking within 500 miles of a hub will benefit RR, but a few major trucking companies want more control to the point they want longer truck on the road that do more damage to them to make a buck. A good number of these companies are also anti transit.
Its also why Metrolinx is upgrading the GO System these days
afransen
Senior Member
I think a lot of trucking companies would be content to pay a toll if it meant their drivers and equipment (can run $100 - $200/hour) weren't sitting in traffic, and their service was more predictable and reliable. And I already pay for it through taxes. I take it you're talking about LCVs for longer trucks? My understanding is that it is more a driver and fuel efficiency play. I'm not sure they do any more damage to the roads as they have proportionally more axles (and fewer tractors).
Bojaxs
Active Member
If trucking companies were willing to pay tolls, than why do you hardly ever see them using the 407? They're even willing to be stuck in traffic on the 401 for hours rather than use the 407. I work in logistics and deal with trucking companies all the time. Time is money. Traffic eats into their profits. Yet they still won't use the 407.
The widening of the 401 isn't mean't for commuters. It's meant for the trucks that are moving goods. I live in south Oakville, you don't even see half as many trucks on the QEW or the 403 as you see on the 401.