Roads: Highway 401 Widening - Highway 8 to Highway 410 (MTO, U/C, Planned)

[afransen]

If the 401 is toll as the 407, where do you think traffic will be??

If the 401 is toll as I-90 and not a killer like the 407.

It becomes have and have not road where the ones who can afford the daily cost will others cannot will drive it what very the cost is.

Transportation of good will take a jump and you will be paying for it when the price of good you buy take another hit at the checkout.

I will be seeing a lot of toll charges in the mail as I drive toll roads in the US in Aug

Driving is already expensive. Driving on the highway at peak times is not a human right. Parallel roads are already congested. Trips won't shift to parallel roads, they will shift to off-peak times or other modes.

Shippers would be happy to pay reasonable tolls if it means their $100/hour truck+driver is not crawling at 20 kph all day every day.

 

[Undead]

It's irresponsible to toll roads without giving people a viable public transit alternative. Just makes them bitter and opposed to urbanist initiatives. We need a regional rail line running parallel to the 401 before we toll it.

 

[KevinT]

Out in the far west, Cambridge expansion still chugging away.

Ramp on EB to Townline is back open and lanes are realigned to new sections in both directions, while the old inner section is torn up.

Hespler bridge work is finishing up, including the road work in that area. Website with updates suggests they will do the final pave soon in that section (Hespler to Franklin) and finally reopen the left lanes on the WB section, approaching Hespler. This should greatly alleviate congestion coming into Cambridge in the afternoon as it can back up all the way to the 6 on some days!

A bit further west than that, the new eastbound span of the Grand River bridge has been decked and paved, with the raised approach grade also now paved. I haven't seen it since last Saturday when I left on vacation, but it looked very close to getting final grading of the shoulder and having the lines painted. Once that's complete the original westbound (currently the middle / temporary eastbound) span will be dropped and replaced in the final phase.

 

[Dinamo5]

Toll a highwary that our tax dollars paid for, continue to pay for. 30 years ago politicians would say Canadians your taxes are high but you get to drive for free on highways. Give me back all my tax dollars and slash my tax in half and then go ahead toll the road. But yes having viable transit line parrallel to the highwarys and then connections to go elswhere is the way to go for sure, that would definatley be something I would consider using with the family, especially when visiting Toronto.

 

[afransen]

Toll a highwary that our tax dollars paid for, continue to pay for. 30 years ago politicians would say Canadians your taxes are high but you get to drive for free on highways. Give me back all my tax dollars and slash my tax in half and then go ahead toll the road. But yes having viable transit line parrallel to the highwarys and then connections to go elswhere is the way to go for sure, that would definatley be something I would consider using with the family, especially when visiting Toronto.

We could just use the 401 for parking. It certainly barely functions as a highway.

The toll revenue wouldn't get piled up and lit on fire. It would fund something, reducing the need for other taxes. it is just a user fee. There is a reason why say, ice time at the arena isn't free. Our tax dollars built the arena, but if ice time were free, and worse, we didn't control who could use it, you would just have 50 people trying to play 5 games of hockey at the same time, which is essentially what we have with the 400 series highways in Toronto. It is overcrowded and less useful for everyone as a result.

 

[just east of the creek]

We could just use the 401 for parking. It certainly barely functions as a highway.

The toll revenue wouldn't get piled up and lit on fire. It would fund something, reducing the need for other taxes. it is just a user fee. There is a reason why say, ice time at the arena isn't free. Our tax dollars built the arena, but if ice time were free, and worse, we didn't control who could use it, you would just have 50 people trying to play 5 games of hockey at the same time, which is essentially what we have with the 400 series highways in Toronto. It is overcrowded and less useful for everyone as a result.

Our levels of taxation are very low compared with other countries, and certainly in the areas of car ownership and operation. The lessons have been learned elsewhere time and time again, you cannot build highways to exceed demands in an era of urban sprawl and cheap car ownership costs. So toll away, work towards Better utilization of existing resources, provide better transit, increase densities, provide new and varied forms of housing, and recognize that the housing model of the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s and 2000’s is as changed as the societal model we live in.

 

[Undead]

Our levels of taxation are very low compared with other countries

Maybe just western Europe.

 

[Deadpool X]

Maybe just western Europe.

You can also include Nordic countries and Switzerland.

 

[Undead]

Either way "Our levels of taxation are very low compared with other countries" is a very odd statement when it's just Europe with higher taxes.

 

[ARG1]

We could just use the 401 for parking. It certainly barely functions as a highway.

You know, some of use use it outside of peak hours

The toll revenue wouldn't get piled up and lit on fire. It would fund something, reducing the need for other taxes. it is just a user fee. There is a reason why say, ice time at the arena isn't free. Our tax dollars built the arena, but if ice time were free, and worse, we didn't control who could use it, you would just have 50 people trying to play 5 games of hockey at the same time, which is essentially what we have with the 400 series highways in Toronto. It is overcrowded and less useful for everyone as a result.

You're comparing leisure facilities to critical transportation infrastructure? People don't need to go out and hit the ice rink unless they want to play some hockey or do some ice skating. People and businesses NEED the 401 to get to work or deliver good to people/stores - the economy necessitates it. As it stands we don't have any good cross region public transit that can be used as an alternative to the 401, so literally all you're doing is taking 401 traffic, and dumping it onto local streets like Wilson, Sheppard, and Lawrence.

And no, I do not accept using toll money to offset/build the alternative infrastructure. We build a strong regional regional transportation network first (for instance we build a regional rail line through midtown Toronto), then we maybe can start discussing the possibility of tolling the 401 - no sooner.

 

[afransen]

You know, some of use use it outside of peak hours

You're comparing leisure facilities to critical transportation infrastructure? People don't need to go out and hit the ice rink unless they want to play some hockey or do some ice skating. People and businesses NEED the 401 to get to work or deliver good to people/stores - the economy necessitates it. As it stands we don't have any good cross region public transit that can be used as an alternative to the 401, so literally all you're doing is taking 401 traffic, and dumping it onto local streets like Wilson, Sheppard, and Lawrence.

And no, I do not accept using toll money to offset/build the alternative infrastructure. We build a strong regional regional transportation network first (for instance we build a regional rail line through midtown Toronto), then we maybe can start discussing the possibility of tolling the 401 - no sooner.

The goal posts will always be moved if we follow that paradigm.

 

[ARG1]

The goal posts will always be moved if we follow that paradigm.

Perhaps, but that's probably because we are a LONG ways off before the idea of tolling the 401 becomes a reasonable idea in any meaningful sense.

 

[SashaLemon]

Train = must make money, must demand tickets to ride, must be over political and controversial
Highway = it's free! tolling it is against my fundamental human rights!

 

[Deadpool X]

Train = must make money, must demand tickets to ride, must be over political and controversial
Highway = it's free! tolling it is against my fundamental human rights!

You can also see it the other way.

Highway = much cheaper to build, gives door to door access, breaks even very easily
Train = much more costly to build, needs a lot more people to break even

Both highways and trains are right in their own places and both can't replace the other.

PS - urban trains don't make money and no one expects them to.

 

[KevinT]

The eastbound 401 traffic over the Grand River near Kitchener is now using the new eastbound span. The original westbound span (which most recently handled the eastbound traffic) is already getting its approaches picked apart in prep for demolition.