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Roads: GTA West Corridor—Highway 413

SunriseChampion said:
Wait so running a train line in the middle of nowhere is asinine but building a highway is reasonable? I don't follow.

Why does the middle of nowhere need a highway, pray tell?
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These types of commutes is exactly where Highways shine though. Specifically the area between "Travel demand is too small to warrant frequent GO train service but high enough to warrant building infrastructure. Highways are still king when it comes to dispersed commutes, which is why even transit heavy countries such as Australia and Japan continue to build highways.
 
Is it high enough though? The 407 is empty most of the time. I'm fully able to do the entirety of it at speed most of the time.
 
SunriseChampion said:
Is it high enough though? The 407 is empty most of the time. I'm fully able to do the entirety of it at speed most of the time.
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I wouldn't call the 407 empty at rush-hour - at least pre-covid. But not hard to do the speed limit even in the busiest spots.

But remember capacity is greater when it's running freely. As soon as congestion starts, capacity drops. So they maximize profit by keeping it running freely - not by adding more cars. But I wonder what happens in another few decades. They've already expanded it out to maximum capacity in some spots. Do they just continue to massively increase peak charges (ironically, it seems to me the biggest increases over the decades have been to off-peak charges).
 
The 407 is at “maximum” build from the 401 to the 404 right now from my understanding.

prior to the pandemic they had been placing crazy toll increases annually to keep traffic levels down - to the tune of 20% increases a year. That’s obviously been put on hold since.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see them go for a mega-rebuild at some point with a collector express system at some point. They have the space. But that would be far more expensive then the work they have been doing up until now so it would need some more complex financing models.
 
I drive the 407 every opportunity I get because I'm a gearhead and I love opening up on a road and to me it seems like the biggest waste of space ever. By "at speed" you're right in thinking I don't mean the speed limit. I mean, sure, it's great for me as I get to properly send it, but it sure as hell doesn't suggest to me that we need another "bypass".

We have homeless people, shit transit, inadequate hospital space, etc but we really need another highway.

This kind of noise exactly why I don't want to pay income taxes anymore.
 
nfitz said:
Do they just continue to massively increase peak charges (ironically, it seems to me the biggest increases over the decades have been to off-peak charges).
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Yes, that is the only way to deal with congestion.

I do think their off-peak rates should be a lot more reasonable.
 
“ Caledon Mayor Allan Thompson is a former farmer who supports the premier’s superhighway plan, even while acknowledging that it may ultimately result in a large proportion of Caledon’s existing farmland being sold off to developers for residential and industrial projects.

Thompson himself recently sold some of his own farmland to a developer for $10 million, according to court documents.”

Amazing. Just amazing. I go back to my contention that this highway is not about “supporting industry”. It’s an expensive subsidy to sprawl, and, apparently a giant windfall for a number of politicians along the route.

At the very least, this should be seen as a conflict of interest: the Caledon Mayor can’t be objective, given that his land holdings would have (and did) increased dramatically in value if the highway was approved.
 
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allengeorge said:
“ Caledon Mayor Allan Thompson is a former farmer who supports the premier’s superhighway plan, even while acknowledging that it may ultimately result in a large proportion of Caledon’s existing farmland being sold off to developers for residential and industrial projects.

Thompson himself recently sold some of his own farmland to a developer for $10 million, according to court documents.”

Amazing. Just amazing. I go back to my contention that this highway is not about “supporting industry”. It’s an expensive subsidy to sprawl, and, apparently a giant windfall for a number of politicians along the route.

At the very least, this should be seen as a conflict of interest: the Caledon Mayor can’t be objective, given that his land holdings would have (and did) increased dramatically in value if the highway was approved.
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Great info!

Reminds us all when looking at suspect decisions.............sometimes they are mere foolishness..........but......maybe.......follow the money.
 
allengeorge said:
“ Caledon Mayor Allan Thompson is a former farmer who supports the premier’s superhighway plan, even while acknowledging that it may ultimately result in a large proportion of Caledon’s existing farmland being sold off to developers for residential and industrial projects.

Thompson himself recently sold some of his own farmland to a developer for $10 million, according to court documents.”

Amazing. Just amazing. I go back to my contention that this highway is not about “supporting industry”. It’s an expensive subsidy to sprawl, and, apparently a giant windfall for a number of politicians along the route.

At the very least, this should be seen as a conflict of interest: the Caledon Mayor can’t be objective, given that his land holdings would have (and did) increased dramatically in value if the highway was approved.
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The government should be capturing 100% of any windfall increase in value due to rezoning from agricultural and highway provision. Those proceeds used to build infrastructure, especially including high quality transit access that would enable these greenfield developments to be transit oriented from inception.
 
SunriseChampion said:
I drive the 407 every opportunity I get because I'm a gearhead and I love opening up on a road and to me it seems like the biggest waste of space ever. By "at speed" you're right in thinking I don't mean the speed limit. I mean, sure, it's great for me as I get to properly send it, but it sure as hell doesn't suggest to me that we need another "bypass".

We have homeless people, shit transit, inadequate hospital space, etc but we really need another highway.

This kind of noise exactly why I don't want to pay income taxes anymore.
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If that highway is going to repaid by tolls and no taxpayer money will be used, then what's the issue?
 
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