Roads: GTA West Corridor—Highway 413

[Rainforest]

Highway 400 is currently being widened in the Vaughan area, from Langstaff up to King Road. The goal is to extend the HOV lane all the way through Barrie to Highway 11. So the location of the intersection between 400 and 413 makes sense.

It's already about as far north as it can get without being fully in the greenbelt, which is a no-go, even for this government. Maybe for the next bypass 30-50 years from now.

It might be hard to get the 4-th lane through Barrie, the corridor there looks constrained.

The concern with this 413 setup is that it will bring more Toronto-bound commuters during the peak periods. Even though the southern part of the 400 got widened, it might be jammed because the roads to their final destinations are narrow and cannot be widened.

 

[innsertnamehere]

It might be hard to get the 4-th lane through Barrie, the corridor there looks constrained.

The concern with this 413 setup is that it will bring more Toronto-bound commuters during the peak periods. Even though the southern part of the 400 got widened, it might be jammed because the roads to their final destinations are narrow and cannot be widened.

MTO has done the plans to do a 10-lane cross-section through Barrie and is actually more or less building it as we speak. They are doing a bunch of bridge replacements through there and widening the highway platform in preparation for the full widening as a part of it.

The vast majority of vehicles using the 413 will get nowhere close to the City of Toronto - quite the opposite, they will use the highway to go around the city.

 

[urbancog]

Some vehicles will use the 413 to bypass the 401/400. But, there will also be a lot of vehicles from the new subdivisions on the Caledon / Brampton border who use the 413 as better way accessing the 427, 410, 403 into Mississauga, Toronto and Oakville.

 

[ShonTron]

You joke, but I think that part of this is a real genuine possibility - I wouldn’t consider it out of the question for the province to propose a Bradford Bypass extension west toward Alliston/New Tecumseth if Honda ends up building their battery plant there.

Okay then, Highway 425 from the 401/403 split in Woodstock through Stratford, Fergus, Flesherton, Wasaga, Midland to Orillia next!

Better start planning the 431 too from London through Tobermory and with a causeway to South Baymouth, Espanola, and Sudbury.

 

[ericmacm]

I doubt it would be that extensive. Likely more like a 4-laning of 89 with a bypass of Cookstown. It would be a sort of similar condition to what they are doing for access to St. Thomas, and I think a full freeway connection, running primarily southwest, would be overkill and counterintuitive to a lot of traffic on 89, which actually heads north to Barrie. The Bradford Bypass is ultimately 9 kilometres south of 89, it would be quite a detour to connect northwards to Alliston.

I would normally agree - it might seem a bit excessive, but I think it really all depends on how big the potential battery plant ends up being. If it’s a big enough investment it would certainly warrant the construction of a freeway like we are seeing in St. Thomas. I know the Bradford Bypass alignment doesn't match up that well, but a big enough plant development could very well justify breaking off of that linear alignment for direct freeway access.

The battery plant in St. Thomas is reportedly costing VW/PowerCo $7B to build (not considering the $16B in incentives) and the one in Windsor is reportedly costing Stellantis/LG $5B to build (not considering the $15B in incentives). Meanwhile, the number being floated around by the media regarding Honda’s potential investment is $18.4B. It has potential to be a much larger facility than both the VW and Stellantis plants. We'll just have to wait and see how it pans out though.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

The Terms of Reference for the initial GTA West Environmental Assessment (back in July 2007) allowed for a route between Guelph and Hwy 400:
View attachment 550274
I don't support the 413 but at least a highway north of Brampton and Georgetown would have provided a route for stone from the many quarries to move into the GTA off local roads.

Not happening. MTO is finally doing the EA for the last stretch of the 401 between Cambridge and Milton - I suspect it'll show up on the 5-year program in the next ~5 years or so.

My understanding is that these things are closely related - the idea of recommending Milton had a lot to do with avoiding a new escarpment crossing.

I don't like this project, or want it to go ahead... but between the current version and a direct Guelph one ploughing straight through the most sensitive lands? Yeah, I'd rather it end in Milton and keep widening the 401.

 

[Rainforest]

MTO has done the plans to do a 10-lane cross-section through Barrie and is actually more or less building it as we speak. They are doing a bunch of bridge replacements through there and widening the highway platform in preparation for the full widening as a part of it.

The vast majority of vehicles using the 413 will get nowhere close to the City of Toronto - quite the opposite, they will use the highway to go around the city.

Some vehicles will use the 413 to bypass the 401/400. But, there will also be a lot of vehicles from the new subdivisions on the Caledon / Brampton border who use the 413 as better way accessing the 427, 410, 403 into Mississauga, Toronto and Oakville.

I realize that the network effects are complex, and some are net-positive.

However, the concern is that residents of those new subdivisions on the Caledon / Brampton border - enabled by the 413, and very poorly served by public transit - will en masse use the 413 + 400 + Black Creek Drive or Allen Rd + the regular streets to access the jobs in downtown or midtown. Resulting in more congestion there.

That's why I feel the 413 should connect to the 400 at some point further north; still helping the traffic that bypasses the 416, but not inducing more traffic into the 416.

 

[just east of the creek]

I realize that the network effects are complex, and some are net-positive.

However, the concern is that residents of those new subdivisions on the Caledon / Brampton border - enabled by the 413, and very poorly served by public transit - will en masse use the 413 + 400 + Black Creek Drive or Allen Rd + the regular streets to access the jobs in downtown or midtown. Resulting in more congestion there.

That's why I feel the 413 should connect to the 400 at some point further north; still helping the traffic that bypasses the 416, but not inducing more traffic into the 416.

As long as senior levels of government are committed to only growing the economy ( and supporting current lifestyles) by inducing population growth, no freeway will do anything but create additional congestion long term. This is a long road to nowhere, we will run out of 400 series numbers, before we run out of congestion on those highways.

 

[Haljackey]

we will run out of 400 series numbers, before we run out of congestion on those highways.

Hey now, you just gotta be creative! For example: once a 400-series has 6 lanes from start to end- can we give it a 600-series designation? Perhaps one day the 401 can be the 601

The 409 is 6 lanes all the way right? That would be the only contender currently. 427 comes damm close.

 

[Steve X]

Hey now, you just gotta be creative! For example: once a 400-series has 6 lanes from start to end- can we give it a 600-series designation? Perhaps one day the 401 can be the 601

The 409 is 6 lanes all the way right? That would be the only contender currently. 427 comes damm close.

That already exists:

Ontario Highway 601 History - The King's Highways of Ontario

 

[Krypto98]

I hope this highway never comes to pass, I consider it an abomination. If built, I would vote for the politician who would tear it back out and send the bill to every person who ever said a positive word about it.

I would vote for any politician who tears out the 401 and 400

 

[Bojaxs]

I would vote for any politician who tears out the 401 and 400

Right.... and where's all the goods that move by truck going to go?

 

[Steve X]

I would vote for any politician who tears out the 401 and 400

And put the economic into deep recession? The feds will definitely step in if it gets serious enough to cripple the country.

Half the population will likely lose their job without highways as it become prohibitively expensive to get their raw supplies. You'll see pricing on goods approach Yukon prices.

 

[Haljackey]

I would vote for any politician who tears out the 401 and 400

Even the wacko fringe parties are sane enough to know this is nonsense. Feel free to run as a independent as you're probably the only one you would vote for anyway.

 

[darth_freeman]

There's an epidemic of people that have just drunk way too much Transit-Youtuber Kool-Aid and think all Highways are unnecessary.