Roads: Fantasy Proposals

[Johnny Au]

There is an extremely good reason why the Highway 401-Highway 427-Eglinton Avenue-Highway 27-Carlingview Drive interchange is known as a spaghetti junction.

Simplifying that interchange to perhaps a multilevel roundabout would be a great fantasy.

 

[Johnny Au]

Here is another fantasy proposal: making Highway 401 double-decked just like the Embarcadero Freeway in San Francisco before the Loma Prieta earthquake in 1989, especially given that seismic risk is much lower in Toronto (though Toronto is not immune to earthquakes). Chicago even has a few triple-decked streets as well. Parts of the Five Points neighbourhood of Atlanta is bi-level as well (with the lower level known as Underground Atlanta).

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Here is another fantasy proposal: making Highway 401 double-decked just like the Embarcadero Freeway in San Francisco before the Loma Prieta earthquake in 1989, especially given that seismic risk is much lower in Toronto (though Toronto is not immune to earthquakes). Chicago even has a few triple-decked streets as well. Parts of the Five Points neighbourhood of Atlanta is bi-level as well (with the lower level known as Underground Atlanta).

We don't really build road infrastructure like that anymore. However I wonder what it would be like if it were double decked, collector lanes above express thus protecting the express lanes from the environment somewhat. I wonder what the value of a roughly 6 lane wide strip of land through mid town Toronto would be.

 

[Transportfan]

Here's a fantasy proposal (or rather a what-might-have-been) for St. Clair Avenue. that runs into Mississauga by incorporating parts of Rathburn and Burnhamthorpe Roads.

An example of a fantasy proposal:

St Clair Extension to Don Valley Pkwy
St Clair Ave is extended eastward through Mud Creek Ravine and north of the Beltline Trail to connect with Bayview Ave. A new bridge would be built over the Don River and GO rail line to connect with onramps to the DVP.

Here's a fantasy proposal (or rather a what-might-have-been) for St. Clair Avenue. It runs into Mississauga by incorporating Burnhamthorpe Road and the Etobicoke part of Rathburn:

 

[pstogios]

Here's a fantasy proposal (or rather a what-might-have-been) for St. Clair Avenue. that runs into Mississauga by incorporating parts of Rathburn and Burnhamthorpe Roads.

Wow. That's quite the fantasy because there is actually no possible way to construct the connection you propose between St Clair and Rathburn, short of going underground.

 

[Haljackey]

Here's some old ideas I have:

Greater Toronto Bypass

With 402 extension

London ring road rework with possible additional routes (real fantasy because 402 bypass of London is no longer needed)

Full interchange Highway 401 & 8 (was planned at one point)

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And some other insane ideas:

 

[Transportfan]

Wow. That's quite the fantasy because there is actually no possible way to construct the connection you propose between St Clair and Rathburn, short of going underground.

That's why I described it as a "might-have-been". Similar to how Eglinton was extended by incorporating Richview Sideroad and Lower Baseline. I also forgot to mention how the two sections of the street could have been connected by using O'Conner Dr. (connecting at the Broadview Ave hairpin) linked via a high-level bridge over the Don Valley , although that would have precluded an interchange with the DVP.

 

[Johnny Au]

I do like Haljackey's Pelee–Sandusky Expressway idea. It would be a great way for Ontarians to visit Cedar Point.

There should be a proper east-west expressway from the Ontario–Manitoba boundary to the Ontario–Quebec boundary, along with an alternate highway crossing the Nipigon River to prevent future incidents of what happened earlier this year.

 

[BurlOak]

I do like Haljackey's Pelee–Sandusky Expressway idea. It would be a great way for Ontarians to visit Cedar Point.

There should be a proper east-west expressway from the Ontario–Manitoba boundary to the Ontario–Quebec boundary, along with an alternate highway crossing the Nipigon River to prevent future incidents of what happened earlier this year.

A freeway from Manitoba is missing probably 1000km. Curves and grades are also severely deficient for a freeway.

There are about 5 bridges ( the trucking association identified them) between Thunder Bay and Nipigon. All will be twinned with the 4 landing, except for Nipigon, which will be a single bridge with 3 lines of cables.

There was talk about connecting highway 11 with highway 585 near Webster falls (about 15km north of Nipigon) with a full 2 lane highway, but it now appears that this connection would only have a single lane bridge and a winding road for use in extreme emergencies.

There are also 1 or two bridges west of Thunder Bay with only one bridge. I have not heard any plans for those. This is between the highway 102 junction and the 11/17 split. Shebandowan river bridge, and I think a railway bridge too.

 

[Johnny Au]

A freeway from Manitoba is missing probably 1000km. Curves and grades are also severely deficient for a freeway.

There are about 5 bridges ( the trucking association identified them) between Thunder Bay and Nipigon. All will be twinned with the 4 landing, except for Nipigon, which will be a single bridge with 3 lines of cables.

There was talk about connecting highway 11 with highway 585 near Webster falls (about 15km north of Nipigon) with a full 2 lane highway, but it now appears that this connection would only have a single lane bridge and a winding road for use in extreme emergencies.

There are also 1 or two bridges west of Thunder Bay with only one bridge. I have not heard any plans for those. This is between the highway 102 junction and the 11/17 split. Shebandowan river bridge, and I think a railway bridge too.

This is why it's in the fantasy thread.

 

[BurlOak]

How about a highway from Nakina to Armstrong to Pickle Lake to Red Lake to The Pas?

My fantasies are usually more realistic (but maybe not so much so). For the north,

1. Twin highway 17 from Manitoba to Kenora (Hwy 71). Currently held up by for nation negotiations.
2. Connect highway 11 and 17 from Terrace Bay to Lonlac (reduce detour in case of closure).
3. Highway to Ring of Fire (from Nakina?)
4. Make Sultan Road (Gogama to Chapleau) a provincial highway.
5. Soo bypass for Hwy 17.
6. Twin North Bay to Sudbury. Possibly to the Soo.
7. Hwy 11 and 17 bypass of North Bay

 

[Kitsune]

... I always thought the 404 should be extended north to Nipigon via 11 connecting with the current freeway portion around Severn Bridge. At the very least it would be four lane divided, not necessary to express-ize it. If out west can handle this setup with 110 km/h speed limits, Ontario can too. To throw a bone to Sudbury and Soo, you would extend the 417 to the international border (and this would be expressway grade just to make them happy for taking them off the prime TC route). And if you look at a map - you can see the future 417 route in North Bay. 17 is already bypassed in Sudbury (the four laning of both it and 69 within City limits is on hold for eternity. Dunno how Soo would like an expressway cutting it half though.

 

[Johnny Au]

... I always thought the 404 should be extended north to Nipigon via 11 connecting with the current freeway portion around Severn Bridge. At the very least it would be four lane divided, not necessary to express-ize it. If out west can handle this setup with 110 km/h speed limits, Ontario can too. To throw a bone to Sudbury and Soo, you would extend the 417 to the international border (and this would be expressway grade just to make them happy for taking them off the prime TC route). And if you look at a map - you can see the future 417 route in North Bay. 17 is already bypassed in Sudbury (the four laning of both it and 69 within City limits is on hold for eternity. Dunno how Soo would like an expressway cutting it half though.

With an expressway in Soo, it could connect with I-75 as well.

Speaking of I-75, there should be an interstate freeway across the Upper Peninsula connecting the Twin Cities of Minnesota with Soo and would primarily be south of Lake Superior. This way, trips between Ottawa and Minneapolis would not involve having to pass Thunder Bay or Chicago.

 

[dunkalunk]

Hamilton Harbour Tunnel

This tunnel would provide a direct connection between Highway 6 at the 403 and the Wellington/Victoria one-way road pair to provide an alternate access route to Downtown Hamilton and upper Hamilton via Claremont Access. This tunnel would be built in conjunction with the upgrading of Highway 6 between the 401 and 403 to a limited-access freeway. Tolls could also be useful in order to control traffic entering Downtown Hamilton an to encourage use of transit during peak periods.

The Tunnel would make use of the existing grade of Hendrie Valley/Gindstone Creek in order to drop below grade at Plains Rd. The tunnel would pass under the Catholic Cemetery and Hamilton Harbour using sunk pre-cast box segments.

Building a new roadway here would also come with the fringe benefit of fixing the current Highway 6/403 ramps which have an unsafe acceleration lane and weaving on the left side of the 403 EB lanes. This really needs to be done regardless whenever this interchange due for reconstruction.

 

[gweed123]

Hamilton Harbour Tunnel

That's quite interesting, haha. IMO, a better way of connecting downtown Hamilton to the 403 would be to rebuild the Burlington St elevated structure as a proper expressway (including filling the gap between Ottawa and Gage), a relatively short tunnel under the North End (perhaps even going above the CN tracks), then above the CN rail yard, then under the Hamilton Cemetery, to connect with the 403. This would in essence provide a freeway connection between the 403 and QEW without having to go through the Freeman interchange and over the Skyway. It would also largely negate the need for King-Main to be used as a quasi-EW freeway.