News   Aug 07, 2020
 2.8K     6 
News   Aug 07, 2020
 675     0 
News   Aug 07, 2020
 772     0 

Roads: Fantasy Proposals

Johnny Au

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
6,327
Reaction score
1,406
Location
Near the North York, York, & Old Toronto tripoint
To build off of AoD's suggestion, I've always liked the idea of closing at least the west side of Queen's Park Crescent to reconnect Queen's Park and the U of T campus. Recreate Taddle Creek through the area and create a large park through downtown (partially on U of T's campus but few would see the difference). I've never considered burying the entirety of Queen's Park Crescent because it struck me as unnecessarily expensive (because of the University line) but if it were doable it would certainly make closing the road far more palatable than my idea (to make the east side of QPS into a two-way road lol)
To add to that, another museum could be built as well, perhaps at the south end of Museum station, so that Toronto would have its own version of NYC's Museum Mile.

The ROM could be repurposed to be either a natural history museum (like the American Museum of Natural History) or an anthropological art museum (like the Metropolitan Museum of Art), while the new museum would focus on what the ROM would no longer focus on.

The ROM stated that it has an undisplayed collection large enough for a second museum the size of the ROM itself.
 
Last edited:

TheTigerMaster

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Messages
12,677
Reaction score
5,026
Location
Best Toronto
1. Didn't type it all in for the sake of brevity - the point has gotten across.
2. Burial isn't for the sake of speed - but for consolidating green space and create a legislative precinct.

AoD
That's an interesting proposal. The concept reminds me of the National Mall in Washington, albeit on a significantly smaller scale. I would like to see this happen one day, although I admit that the feasibility of this is questionable. The University Line is quite shallow in the area, and I suspect the building foundations are deep enough to make tunnelling under them impractical. There would also be issues with tunnelling under the historic Queen's Park. Finally, building the on/off ramps at Bloor and College while avoiding the subway and building foundations in the area is likely not possible.
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
17,211
Reaction score
5,908
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
That's an interesting proposal. The concept reminds me of the National Mall in Washington, albeit on a significantly smaller scale. I would like to see this happen one day, although I admit that the feasibility of this is questionable. The University Line is quite shallow in the area, and I suspect the building foundations are deep enough to make tunnelling under them impractical. There would also be issues with tunnelling under the historic Queen's Park. Finally, building the on/off ramps at Bloor and College while avoiding the subway and building foundations in the area is likely not possible.
The subway tunnels pass to the east side of the Legislative Buildings at Queen's Park. However, Wellesley Street West passes under Queens Park Crescent West to join with Hart House Cir..
 

P23

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
757
Reaction score
285
Can we fantasize about removing roads? I'd erase Lake Shore from the Humber to the Don. Or at least reduce the number of lanes and speed limit.
 

P23

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jul 7, 2013
Messages
757
Reaction score
285
If not removing at least burying it - I wish High Park can become a contiguous park space with the western waterfront.

AoD
Yep, and all the other parks along the waterfront like Sunnyside, Marylin Bell etc. would be improved and safer to access. Sure, the Gardiner and the tracks are still there but they are trenched or elevated so pedestrians and cyclists never have to interact with them. It would probably be a lot quieter in these parks as well without the constant high speed traffic nearby. Sadly, I don't see this happening ever.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

Moderator
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
27,907
Reaction score
16,030
Location
Toronto
Yep, and all the other parks along the waterfront like Sunnyside, Marylin Bell etc. would be improved and safer to access. Sure, the Gardiner and the tracks are still there but they are trenched or elevated so pedestrians and cyclists never have to interact with them. It would probably be a lot quieter in these parks as well without the constant high speed traffic nearby. Sadly, I don't see this happening ever.
Or do Barcelona did with their Ronda Litoral - partial burial/landbridged - it'd be sufficient. But of course, Etobicoke would have a fit messing with their baby in any way.

AoD
 

gweed123

Moderator
Staff member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
7,669
Reaction score
1,208
Location
Burlington
Or do Barcelona did with their Ronda Litoral - partial burial/landbridged - it'd be sufficient. But of course, Etobicoke would have a fit messing with their baby in any way.

AoD
Even something like the Herb Gray Parkway in Windsor would likely be sufficient. Have the "overpasses" be wide enough that there's significant green space on either side, so it doesn't feel like an overpass.
 

jcam

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 30, 2011
Messages
496
Reaction score
246
If not removing at least burying it - I wish High Park can become a contiguous park space with the western waterfront.

AoD
Ideal would be a cut and cover box - one level is LSW corridor, the other is the Gardiner. Dive it underground right after the Humber and come above at Dufferin. Build the whole thing where Lakeshore currently exists, put lakeshore back on top, then dismantle the rail and Gardiner berms. Throw in a Sunnyside station while we're at it.

Ridiculously expensive I'd imagine.
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
17,211
Reaction score
5,908
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
From this link.

Western Waterfront Master Plan

In 2007, the City of Toronto began a master planning exercise for Toronto’s western waterfront, which is an area of about 300 acres (120 hectares) bounded by the Humber River in the west, Marilyn Bell Park in the east, the CN Rail corridor in the north and Lake Ontario to the south. Most of the area falls outside the designated waterfront area, which runs from Coxwell Avenue in the east to Dowling Avenue in the west, and is therefore a City rather than a tri-government initiative.

Defined by a large amount of parkland as well as a transportation corridor made up of the Gardiner Expressway and Lake Shore Boulevard, the area is frequented by both local and regional users. It provides one of Toronto’s longest unobstructed views of Lake Ontario and features key historic and recreational facilities, five parks, three beaches and both the Martin Goodman and Humber River Trails. In 1999, the 100 km Humber River was designated a heritage river under the Canadian Heritage Rivers System (CHRS) in recognition of its outstanding natural, cultural and recreational value and its importance in the settlement of southern Ontario.

Beginning in the 1880s, the western waterfront became a popular meeting, swimming and amusement destination. Several significant buildings from the area’s lively 1920s era attest to this more recent heritage, including the Sunnyside Pavilion, the Boulevard Club, the Royal Canadian Legion, the Joy Oil Gas Station and the Palais Royale, which has undergone a significant renovation. This stretch of the waterfront also features several pieces from the City’s Outdoor Art and Monument Collection, including the Queen Elizabeth Way (“Lion”) Monument (1939-1940), Tenth Anniversary of Hungarian Uprising of 1956 Monument (1966), Sir Casimir Gzowski Monument (1967-1968) and integrated art elements in the Humber River Pedestrian and Cycling Bridge (1997).

Purpose of the Western Waterfront Master Plan
The purpose of the master plan is to provide an overall vision and a decision-making framework for improving the public realm in the area in a manner that meets the requirements of the Phases 1 and 2 of the Municipal Class Environmental Assessment process. Public realm refers to parkland, beaches, trails, promenades, roads, bridges, servicing and recreational facilities. The plan also addresses the need to improve connections from the western waterfront to the neighbouring communities of Parkdale, Swansea and High Park.

In August 2009, following extensive public consultations, City Council approved the master plan prepared by Planning Alliance. The plan outlines three phases of implementation: short (1 to 5 years), medium (5 to 20 years), and long-term (more than 20 years).

Components of the plan have been implemented as part of routine divisional Capital Budget submissions, including the rehabilitation of the Gus Ryder Pool, improved pedestrian spaces and underpasses, and new pedestrian traffic signals at Jameson Avenue and Dowling Avenue and Lake Shore Boulevard. Toronto Water is currently undertaking a Humber River Landforms Environmental Assessment to look at improving water quality in the western beaches.
While this plan was approved in August, 2009, we were followed by the Ford Administration, who did NOTHING with it.

There is a thread on the Western Waterfront, at this link.
 

dunkalunk

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
1,215
Reaction score
61
From this link.



While this plan was approved in August, 2009, we were followed by the Ford Administration, who did NOTHING with it.

There is a thread on the Western Waterfront, at this link.
There's a lot of good stuff in that document. I particularly like the reconfiguration of the Jameson-Lake Shore ramps.

It would be really great to see Lake Shore Blvd pushed north in order to increase the amount of usable parkland along the Waterfront. And although it would almost certainly require another bridge across the Humber River, I'd love to see Lake Shore Blvd travel in both directions on the same path south of the Gardiner. The current arrangement makes Humber Bay Shores difficult to serve with transit because it is essentially a peninsula cut off from the rest of the street grid.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

Moderator
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
27,907
Reaction score
16,030
Location
Toronto
That's actually a fairly timid proposal for the western waterfront - I have the 1988 DTAH Gardiner Urban Design Study with me and the interventions suggested in that plan are far more grandiose.

AoD
 

dunkalunk

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jun 26, 2008
Messages
1,215
Reaction score
61


Park Lawn Ramp Configuration and GO Station Access

I know this could just as easily be a transit map, but here's how I envision the road network around a conceptual Park Lawn GO station.

-Legion Rd extended north to meet Legion Rd N (not sure if this is already a plan)
-EB off ramp converted to one-way operation between Park Lawn and Legion Rd N
-New WB on and off ramps
-New EB on ramp connecting GO station to Gardiner (could be moved south of rail ROW if spacing is too tight)
-Multi-level parking structure/advertisement for GO above streetcar loop/access road. think something on same order of magnitude as Viscount.
-New access road connecting with parking structure and ramps
-Bus Priority lanes on Park Lawn Rd to swiftly connect intercity bus station to Gardiner
-Streetcar ROW moved to south side Gardiner/Rail Corridor to connect with station. Humber Loop relocated to GO Station
-Intentional lane reduction of Gardiner/LSB EB to encourage mode shift.

I'm hopeful that something like this can be built, and to ensure its success, it would be combined with frequent RER and eventual tolls on the Gardiner east of the Humber ton encourage drivers to park/transfer here. I also imagine the Jane bus could be extended down Windermere and Lake Shore to provide a frequent connection to the subway.
 

innsertnamehere

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
14,432
Reaction score
9,127
Unfortunately yes, as the full corridor is currently in use. Taking it from 10 lanes to a 14 lane c/e setup would require either large amounts of expropriation or a partial decking like in Dallas on I-635.

Edit: after looking at it closer, you may be able to squeeze it in. It looks like a collector express setup needs about 80m of ROW, and the corridor is generally around 85m wide. It would be tight, especially with ramps, but it might work. The big issue would still be reconfiguring the 427 interchange.
 

Top