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Road Safety & Vision Zero Plan

It's not. It's the law. You're not to enter the crossing when it's red, you can still be in the crossing until it counts down. Assuming we want crossing signals, what's the alternative, make it white until the traffic light turns red, without warning?

Agree with everything else in your post (especially the first graf), but you're not understanding the practical implications of what I'm pointing out. At some crosswalks, because Transportation has not aligned its technical standards with the letter of that law, there are instances in which there are as few as two seconds of walk sign -- in those places, it is literally impossible to cross legally. At countless other crosswalks, the timing isn't as extreme, but still makes crossing legally impractical rather than completely impossible.

It's tempting to say "the law is the law is the law", but I'm afraid it's more complicated than that. The reality here is dumb and confusing, to be sure (I've had this very discussion with Transportation engineers and they are aware of the mixed message they are actively sending), but it is nonetheless the case.
 
LA? I haven't found LA hard to drive - I felt it was a bit easier than Toronto.

Having just last week spent literally 14 hours in 3 days in a car shuttling between meetings in LA, my motion sickness takes extreme umbrage with this.
 
... there are instances in which there are as few as two seconds of walk sign -- in those places, it is literally impossible to cross legally
Yeah, I was at one the other day, where there were a few people standing to cross, and by the time I got my chance to step off the curb (not being at the front, the timer had already started! Of course, I didn't wait until the next light ... and I still crossed long before the countdown ended.

Even more shocking ... I saw a car the other day, that didn't come to a full stop at a stop sign - it only slowed to about 2 km/hr! :)
 
And it makes total sense that cyclists yield at stop signs -- the HTA is designed for motorists and doesn't apply well to cyclists in many ways, which is exactly why the notional direction for TPS officers is to ignore enforcement of this.

Why is this? There seems to be some consensus but, not being an urban cyclist, I'm curious of the logic. I get that a cyclist loses momentum and has to generate energy to get back up to speed but so does a motor vehicle - just a different type of energy. I can often come to a momentary but complete stop on my motorcycle so I don't have to put my foot down.

I suppose the argument for stopping by all it is democratic. Given the wording of the current section, enforcement (assuming there is any) would become highly subjective:

138 (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle or street car approaching a yield right-of-way sign shall slow down to a speed reasonable for the existing conditions or shall stop if necessary as provided in clause 136 (1) (a) and shall yield the right of way to traffic in the intersection or approaching on the intersecting highway so closely that it constitutes an immediate hazard and having so yielded may proceed with caution. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 138 (1).

Honest question - not trying to fuel the motor vehicle-bicycle-pedestrian debate.
 
Seriously; how could he be so delusional as to think that giving out his phone number *wouldn't* invite such nefarious special-interest-groupism? It's like he lives in a milieu of fairy dust...
Why is this? There seems to be some consensus but, not being an urban cyclist, I'm curious of the logic. I get that a cyclist loses momentum and has to generate energy to get back up to speed but so does a motor vehicle - just a different type of energy. I can often come to a momentary but complete stop on my motorcycle so I don't have to put my foot down.

I suppose the argument for stopping by all it is democratic. Given the wording of the current section, enforcement (assuming there is any) would become highly subjective:

138 (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle or street car approaching a yield right-of-way sign shall slow down to a speed reasonable for the existing conditions or shall stop if necessary as provided in clause 136 (1) (a) and shall yield the right of way to traffic in the intersection or approaching on the intersecting highway so closely that it constitutes an immediate hazard and having so yielded may proceed with caution. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 138 (1).

Honest question - not trying to fuel the motor vehicle-bicycle-pedestrian debate.

The worst source of energy waste is the coming to a full stop and starting up for motor vehicles. More energy is burnt and spewed into the atmosphere going from zero to whatever the speed limit is (from first gear).

When I drive and coming up to a red light, I coast down hoping that I do not have to come to a stop before the traffic light turns green.

From link.

Stop the stopping: a Big Idea to get rid of unwarranted stop signs

...“The total annual energy waste . . . is in excess of 100 million litres. This means somewhere around three times the fuel spilled from the Exxon Valdez tanker is being burned away at unnecessary stop signs in greater Toronto every year,” Fenton wrote in an article in Ontario Traffic...

...The discussion paper that sparked the ban cited a 1991 Toronto study, which estimated that removing 480 unwarranted stop signs would save nine million litres of gasoline and eliminate 21,000 tonnes of air pollutants. If Toronto had followed through on that study, emissions would have been reduced by about 5.5 per cent by 2005...
 
Yeah, I was at one the other day, where there were a few people standing to cross, and by the time I got my chance to step off the curb (not being at the front, the timer had already started! Of course, I didn't wait until the next light ... and I still crossed long before the countdown ended.
I was in Anaheim at the beginning of May and the timings were even worse basically the walk sign would come on and then change to don't walk with a countdown and this was street in a major tourist area across from Disneyland it seemed absolutely ridiculous to me as only about half the people waiting on the sidewalk would make it across before the light went red again.
 
So apparently Stephen Holyday introduced a motion that would allow local ward councilors to veto the city's plan to install sidewalks on streets where there aren't any. The motion CARRIED, with support even from John Tory.

This city makes me sick in so many ways.
 
The suburban auto-addicted Councillors, such as Stephen Holiday (from Etobicoke), do not like sidewalks.

Where does the Sidewalk End? In Etobicoke, of course

From link.

There was a lot of debate at this week’s Toronto City Council meeting about sidewalks and, for once, it had nothing to do with the smart-city proposal at the waterfront.

At issue was the “missing sidewalk installation policy” that was to give city staff the authority to build sidewalks on streets that don’t already have them. Despite Toronto ostensibly being a proper city, there are quite a few streets where people have to walk on the road with moving traffic.


A sidewalk is a fundamental part of a city. It is where building meets road, where every motorist becomes a pedestrian once they exit their car and where the public life of the city plays out.

It’s why the urban innovation firm behind the smart-city plan is called Sidewalk Labs rather than, say, Off Ramp, Left Turn Lane or Underpass. The children’s television show Sesame Street could have been called Sesame Sidewalk, as just about all the outdoor action in the entire series takes place on sidewalks.

Despite their benign ubiquity, Councillor Stephen Holyday (Ward 2, Etobicoke Centre) moved a motion on Tuesday to amend the city’s road-safety plan to give local councillors a possible veto over new sidewalks, allowing them to take objections to the city’s infrastructure committee. Holyday said some residents in his ward who don’t have sidewalks are happy without them and don’t want them.

Ensuring all streets have sidewalks was a key part of what’s been called the Vision Zero 2.0 road-safety strategy, after the first watered-down, meek attempt three years ago failed to stop the carnage on our streets.

I’m lucky I often get to visit family in Councillor Holyday’s ward, particularly the Humber Valley Village neighbourhood northwest of Royal York Rd. and Dundas St. W. It’s a lovely place designed by the influential postwar architect and planner Eugene Faludi in the 1940s and has circuitous streets, treed lots and cul-de-sacs. But many of the streets don’t have sidewalks, so pedestrians must share the road with cars.

It’s curious, in light of Holyday’s motion, to walk these sidewalk-free streets and see residents reduced to begging cars to slow down in an attempt to keep their children safe.

Along and around Wimbledon Rd., one of the main through streets in the neighbourhood, you’ll see that in front yards and on corners residents have put out bright orange pylons and tent-like nylon signs that read “CAUTION: CHILDREN AT PLAY” with the image of two youngsters holding hands, seeming scurrying out of the way of traffic. Even more conspicuous are the upright plastic figures of children wearing cute red beanies, standing at the side of the road waving orange flags with the word SLOW written on their hips.

Holyday’s motion was vocally supported by his neighbouring councillor, Mark Grimes (Ward 3 Etobicoke-Lakeshore). On Twitter, Grimes’ policy adviser Mary Campbell was (at least before she made her account private) making bizarre arguments for why local councillors and residents should be able to object to sidewalks, including arguing that her ward was simply planned without sidewalks.

While true, and never mind that we improve on old designs all the time, some streets designed without sidewalks were planned in a more idyllic time, when each house might have had just one car rather than three or four and perhaps when people had more respect for the law.

You don’t need to be in Toronto long to know that speed limits, stop signs and even red lights are optional for many drivers and enforcement is almost non-existent. We all know what that pathetic neon kid is up against here.


The “designed without sidewalks” argument is even more absurd if you consider parts of Ward 3 were designed before the car itself, like Mimico and New Toronto, areas that pre-date the mass adoption of cars and their inherent danger.

By this logic, we should remove the road itself since they weren’t designed with cars in mind.

In the end, 16 councillors, including Mayor John Tory, voted to pass Holyday’s motion, defeating the remaining 10 and yet again chipping away at the city’s road-safety plan.

Honestly, the incremental process of trying to make Toronto streets safer is exhausting. It would be comically absurd if it weren’t so routinely deadly.

If we are indeed a city, it’s our duty to make it safe for everyone who lives here. Perhaps the homeowner doesn’t want a sidewalk, but these are public streets, and the postal worker, nanny, kid walking to a friend’s place, vision-impaired people and users of mobility devices all deserve safe and accessible infrastructure.

In his famous 1974 children’s poem “Where the Sidewalk Ends,” Shel Silverstein evoked an imaginary, childlike place of innocence. Had he been writing in Toronto, it might have been set in Etobicoke and included those neon kids with the flags trying desperately to slow traffic coming towards them.

They might as well be waving white flags of surrender in this city.
 
The worst source of energy waste is the coming to a full stop and starting up for motor vehicles. More energy is burnt and spewed into the atmosphere going from zero to whatever the speed limit is (from first gear).

When I drive and coming up to a red light, I coast down hoping that I do not have to come to a stop before the traffic light turns green.

From link.

Stop the stopping: a Big Idea to get rid of unwarranted stop signs

Absolutely. I try to look ahead as many lights as I can (and as traffic flow will allow) to avoid red lights. Recall the days of yore when routes had timed signals (and traffic was lighter) where, if you caught it right, you didn't have to stop for miles. Discussions on rail threads describe the lengths freight carriers go to to maximize fuel burn and speed change is a key component.

I suspect many stop signs are in place, particularly on residential streets, more for traffic calming.

Regarding bike lanes, I am admittedly no longer an accomplished downtown driver, but we were at the theatre a few months ago and as I was threading my way back through the city, I found making right turns on a green at an intersection with a bike lane to be quite unnerving. A quick shoulder check just didn't seem to do it since the 'target' is so small - maybe it's a confidence thing, although some of the bikes were doing ramming speed. My new truck has a camera that looks down the right side when the signal is on but I haven't had a chance to try it in urban traffic.
 
So apparently Stephen Holyday introduced a motion that would allow local ward councilors to veto the city's plan to install sidewalks on streets where there aren't any. The motion CARRIED, with support even from John Tory.

This city makes me sick in so many ways.

That's all it takes to make you sick? lol
 
Both New York City and Montreal have "NO RIGHT TURN ON RED" by-laws. Both have better Vision Zero outcomes compared with Toronto. Think it is time for Toronto to implement a no right turn on red lights for motor vehicles. That would exclude pedestrian making a right turn on sidewalks, bicycles, and motorized wheelchairs. You can fight it over if e-bikes should be in the exclude mix.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red

1280px-Turn_right_on_red.JPG

French sign indicating to cyclists that they may treat the red light as a yield if turning right
 

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