Road Safety & Vision Zero Plan

[Undead]

You think leaving the scene of an accident after killing a pedestrian in the middle of a bright and clear day is just a case of not being a "perfect" driver?

This is a strawman!

 

[allengeorge]

I think the problem is that no one is actually going back and reading the original post that triggered the discussion: we’re all just responding to fragments that people have commented on, and those fragments lack context, or have changed the meaning of the original message.

 

[crs1026]

There's no way I, or any other driver, is perfect as a driver or person. I've done things I regret as a driver, but dear god, the urbanist safety narrative is simplistic and misguided.

The hardest part about this whole topic is the abundance of extreme and one-sided positions - in every possible direction.

These more extreme positions need to be called out and refuted . But that calling out should not assist some other, equally extreme, contrary view…. the goal is sensible pragmatic and data-based solutions that the majority of citizens can accept.

The death on our roads is inexcusable and needs sustained and determined corrective action. It requires fundamental changes in how people drive automobiles. If that’s a “War on the Car”, so be it. I agree that some are pushing a narrative that places all blame on drivers…. and some seek a future urban vision that has no use for automobiles. I personally can’t buy in to that, and may say so. But there has to be change on our roads.

I don’t know anything about the Barrie police force, but certainly when TPS eliminated its Traffic Divisions, and then the ticketing data showed that the force had pretty much retreated from traffic enforcement, I can appreciate how handing out reflectors enraged people. It was tonedeaf and it reinforced just how badly TPS had fundamentally abdicated its responsibility to make our roads safe. That action was wrong, but it should not be dredged out every time improving visibility is discusssed.

I get cranky too - but should we all not stop taking cheap shots from all sides and meet in the middle of the, er, road?

- Paul
Trying to sound as Vulcan as possible

 

[tiffer24]

Police are investigating another hit-and-run that left a man with critical injuries downtown.
On Thursday night, Toronto police responded to a collision in the area of Lower Jarvis Street and Lake Shore Boulevard East at around 11:45 p.m.
It is reported that a 34-year-old man was crossing Lake Shore Boulevard East when a black vehicle travelling east hit the man, police said.
The pedestrian was taken to hospital with life-threatening injuries.

Police said the driver fled the scene.

https://www.cp24.com/news/man-has-life-threatening-injuries-after-hit-and-run-downtown-1.5703569

 

[W. K. Lis]

...

I don’t know anything about the Barrie police force, but certainly when TPS eliminated its Traffic Divisions, and then the ticketing data showed that the force had pretty much retreated from traffic enforcement, I can appreciate how handing out reflectors enraged people. It was tonedeaf and it reinforced just how badly TPS had fundamentally abdicated its responsibility to make our roads safe. That action was wrong, but it should not be dredged out every time improving visibility is discusssed.

I get cranky too - but should we all not stop taking cheap shots from all sides and meet in the middle of the, er, road?

- Paul
Trying to sound as Vulcan as possible

If we are handing out reflectors to pedestrians, then we should do the same with motor vehicles. No more dark colour automobiles. Demand that reflective attachments or reflective paint be used, to make them more visible, especially at night.

 

[afransen]

Hi guys? Can anyone please explain to me the difference between Vision Zero and Complete Streets Guidelines? I understand that Vision Zero is about eliminating fatalities and that Complete Streets is about moving away from 20th century street design, but I don't understand how the two sets of guidelines shape the city's projects. Sometimes a project is guided by Vision Zero, sometimes by Complete Streets - so it's kinda confusing.

I think complete Streets seems to emphasize making all streets all things to all users. Vision zero or at least the Dutch version of sustainable safety allows for streets to specialize and explicitly believes in separation of incompatible modes rather than just putting bike lanes on every street.

 

[tiffer24]

A 30-year-old man has been charged in connection with a crash in Scarborough Saturday that left a pedestrian dead.

Toronto police said a 69-year-old man was crossing Midland Avenue when he was struck by the driver of a 2019 blue Chevy Cruz travelling north.

The man was pronounced dead at the scene.

Police said the driver fled the scene on foot but was shortly located by officers and taken into custody.

On Sunday, police announced that Lindsay resident Kevin Palmer was charged with dangerous operation of a conveyance causing death, operation of a conveyance causing death while impaired to any degree, leaving the accident scene/fatality, and novice driver – B.A.C. above zero.

https://www.cp24.com/news/man-charged-in-scarborough-crash-that-killed-69-year-old-man-1.5704367

 

[tiffer24]

A pedestrian has died after being struck by an SUV in Scarborough Sunday evening. Emergency crews were called to a collision in the area of Sheppard Avenue East and Allanford Road, east of Birchmount Road, around 7:30 p.m.

The pedestrian suffered serious injuries and was pronounced dead at the scene, police said.

The vehicle, described as a white SUV with damage to the front end, left the area. Police are searching for the driver.

https://www.cp24.com/news/male-pedestrian-dead-after-hit-and-run-in-scarborough-1.5704569

 

[44 North]

Am I reading this right. Three back to back hit and run fatalities over as many days? What the hell's happening.

 

[DirectionNorth]

Am I reading this right. Three back to back hit and run fatalities over as many days? What the hell's happening.

We live in Toronto, world-class city, and pinnacle of urbanism.

 

[Northern Light]

We live in Toronto, world-class city, and pinnacle of urbanism.

I'm not sure that the sarcasm here is correctly placed.

I see blood alcohol levels (ie. driving while impaired) is a factor in several recent cases.

Yes, our roads can and should be safer, both by design and by operation/enforcement.

No question.

But there are other issues at play, including intoxicated/inexperienced driving, in terms of incidents occurring; fleeing the scene is not
a morally defensible choice, but has been a very common phenomenon across many jurisdictions; and can most often be put down to
panic; an emotion which breeds no end of foolishness.

 

[DirectionNorth]

I'm not sure that the sarcasm here is correctly placed.

I see blood alcohol levels (ie. driving while impaired) is a factor in several recent cases.

Yes, our roads can and should be safer, both by design and by operation/enforcement.

No question.

But there are other issues at play, including intoxicated/inexperienced driving, in terms of incidents occurring; fleeing the scene is not
a morally defensible choice, but has been a very common phenomenon across many jurisdictions; and can most often be put down to
panic; an emotion which breeds no end of foolishness.

When things like this happen, even if it's unpreventable, emotions take over. When emotions take over ...

 

[tiffer24]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1470408572949385221

 

[W. K. Lis]

One of the ways we control the speeds of motorists (cyclists apparently as well, maybe runners) is (allegedly) the speeding fines. For most it is a deterrent, for others it is pocket change.

Speeding Ticket Fines Around the World​

From link.

Australian insurance company Budget Direct decided to rifle through global file cabinets in August of this year to find the maximum cost of speeding tickets around the world. In the firm's home market of Australia, speeding fines vary depending on the state where one gets caught. New South Wales authorities, where Sydney is, will ring you up for $2,350 AUD ($1,682 U.S.) for doing more than 45 km/h over the limit, while Victoria, where Melbourne is, maxes out at $793 AUD ($568 U.S.) for a similar speed — but this is all before the mandatory license suspensions, which will end up costing the offender more money.

Outside of Oz, some countries imposed fixed rates, others base a fine on the driver's base income as a way to ensure the wealthy don't view speeding tickets as a mere inconvenience on their time. In the latter case, Budget Direct used the median national income as the benchmark for judging the average size of a speeding ticket. Sudan had the lowest fixed rate. In both cases, the company didn't include the costs of extra charges like being a repeat offender, getting caught racing, or reckless driving.

According to the Budge Direct charts, the U.S. takes the crown for all of North America, our maximum levy being $2,000, but the chart doesn't pinpoint the state. According to the table at FindLaw, the state in question appears to be Oregon, assessing "Class A - D traffic violations with fines from $250 to $2,000 (OR Statute Sections 811.109 and 153.018)." Compare that to Nebraska, where going more than 21 mph over the limit will get you slapped with a bill for $200.

Argentina owns the collections box in South America, its max fine being $3,716 U.S. Much better to be caught speeding in neighboring country Paraguay, where the authorities charge $0.13. That's right, 13 cents. If you want to save more money, don't hit the throttle until you reach Sudan, the country with the lowest fixed fine at $0.09.

Having covered the gargantuan fines issued by some European countries, all of which were based on the driver's income, it's no wonder that the top 20 speeding fines ever issued are all in Europe. Breaking that down further, the top three happened in Switzerland out of four total for the country of chocolate and cows, Belgium and the UK score one each, the remaining 14 were rung up in Finland. The biggest whopper was a nearly $1M U.S. fine levied when a 37-year-old Swedish driver took his SLS AMG up to 180 miles per hour on the A12 between Bern and Lausanne, Switzerland in August 2010. The second-largest fine happened that same year in that same country in January, when a man in a Ferrari Testarossa was caught doing 85 mph in a 52-mph zone. Budget Direct clocks that fine at $327,000 U.S., but the Guinness Book of World Records lists the incident as the largest fine ever at $290,000. Either way, it's a lot of money. Just as incredible, the sixth-largest fine of $141,661 got slapped on someone doing just 32 mph.

 

[tiffer24]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1470737111439527939