Riverdale

[Ex-Montreal Girl]

The traffic calming report has been delayed until later this spring. The traffic calming group has posted a video about why they formed the group here: http://www.myriverdale.ca/2015/03/update-life-gets-in-the-way/

Wow. That is slick. It sure helps to have media savvy types on a committee and you can bet a lot of residents of that area are in the business.

On a personal note, we used to live on Simpson in the mid-late 80s and traffic was scary then. Drivers were using it to bypass Gerrard, or Chinatown II shoppers were cruising to look for parking (back when Chinatown II was vibrant). I didn't realize that Bridgepoint would have such an effect and, of course, additional development will be a problem. I know Carlaw, especially Lakeshore to Dundas, has become a rush hour nightmare, mainly because of development not locally but east of Riverdale as drivers seek shortcuts. As much as I would hate to see the area turn into a maze of one ways, I would totally support it.

Messini is apparently expanding into the next door space formerly occupied by Kritamos. Sorry, Ex-Montreal Girl.

Boooooooooooo! Why oh why can't this town sustain a Greek psarotaverna? Or go beyond the cliche moussaka, meat and potatoes? I am not gonna pretend that Kritamos was well-run or at the right price point for the hood. But there are so many possibilities that no Greek restaurateur seems to be able to consider.

I just want to point out that one guy in Montreal has expanded to New York, Miami, Vegas ... Milos ain't cheap, and it probably could not find a home on Danforth as a result. But there's no debate about its excellence and the lack of any imitators here (although many exist in Montreal, founded mostly by ex-Milos workers.)

http://www.cbc.ca/cinqasix/2012/01/07/costas-spiliadis-makes-milos-a-global-brand/

792 Carlaw, which for sometime was home to the Before & After hair salon (which moved to Pape Village) and then subsequently home to a very short-lived successor hair salon, is being renovated for a coffee shop. It's actually a good location - visible from the Danforth and some good patio space in front.

Perfect. Pick up a cone from Baskin & Robbins and a latte from here. I approve!!

 

[Skeezix]

The irony here is that I once remarked on this thread that Danforth doesn't have much of an indie coffee culture between Pape and Broadview, other than Crema. To which a number of folks pointed out that there were some great coffee places, all of which I'd forgotten, just off (but still in close proximity to) the Danforth. And here is possibly another one coming on Carlaw.

 

[Ex-Montreal Girl]

The irony here is that I once remarked on this thread that Danforth doesn't have much of an indie coffee culture between Pape and Broadview, other than Crema. To which a number of folks pointed out that there were some great coffee places, all of which I'd forgotten, just off (but still in close proximity to) the Danforth. And here is possibly another one coming on Carlaw.

I remember that. it's just that the rents are too damn high.

 

[Skeezix]

According to the City's Building Permit website, the old Labiri/Menchie's space at 298 Danforth is becoming a small restaurant called "Chester Artesano".

 

[christiesplits]

The irony here is that I once remarked on this thread that Danforth doesn't have much of an indie coffee culture between Pape and Broadview, other than Crema.

Is Starbucks indie enough for ya? A new one is opening at Broadview and Danforth, just a few doors down from the McDonalds. It's pretty crazy to think that there was no Starbucks between Gough (one block west of Pape) and Broadview. Similar strips in the west end would have three or four.

Regarding indie coffee culture, I think a big part of it comes down to high rent. Mind you there are some indie coffee joints further east (The One in the Only Cafe, Red Rocket), and directly north and south (The Rooster and Broadview Espresso on Broadview).

 

[Ex-Montreal Girl]

Is Starbucks indie enough for ya? A new one is opening at Broadview and Danforth, just a few doors down from the McDonalds. It's pretty crazy to think that there was no Starbucks between Gough (one block west of Pape) and Broadview. Similar strips in the west end would have three or four.

True but Timothy's in the Carrot Common and Second Cup in the old Carrot location were always there.

I noticed today that there was a "For Lease" sign in the window of the location that was supposed to be a new Home Hardware. HH signage still up but nothing going on inside.

 

[Toronto Rocks]

Mr. Greek is now closed with a sign thanking customers for the past 25 years. There is a lot of larger spaces for lease now on the Danforth, the old Friendly Greek, The old Mr. Greek, and soon The Eaton House.

 

[Ex-Montreal Girl]

Mr. Greek is now closed with a sign thanking customers for the past 25 years. There is a lot of larger spaces for lease now on the Danforth, the old Friendly Greek, The old Mr. Greek, and soon The Eaton House.

That is a cavernous space -- I can recall when it was the Athenian Garden, then my fave Greek restaurant on the Danforth -- with a GREAT patio in terms of sunlight. Front and around the corner on Ferrier. We used to reserve a table right in the NW corner to catch the action during the World Cup when Greece was in it. That was a hoot, especially in 2004.

If we weren't already pubbed out (IMO) I'd say that would be a great location for one. Perfect for outdoor swilling.

My guess is that the space will be divided in two. The Ferrier side will end up as a food place -- I am dying for FRENCH cuisine, good French cuisine -- while the eastern part, well, anybody's guess. Danforth is increasingly a chain store predatory ground.

I am gonna guess that the cause of this is not only the absurdly high rents but also the expansion of souvlaki "cuisine" to the burbs, even by these very restaurants that started on the Danforth. Why drive to Danforth and risk a $40 ticket when you can just use a parking lot for free on some highway in Woodbridge or wherever?

 

[christiesplits]

Yes, I agree that the old Athenian Garden/Mr Greek spot had a wonderful patio. I can't help but wonder if The Danforth will start seeing suburban "premium casual" chains like Milestones and Baton Rouge pop up, especially when you consider how big some of those vacant properties are. It would be hard for an independent restaurateur to fill such large dining areas, much less afford them.

 

[Tulse]

I am gonna guess that the cause of this is not only the absurdly high rents but also the expansion of souvlaki "cuisine" to the burbs, even by these very restaurants that started on the Danforth. Why drive to Danforth and risk a $40 ticket when you can just use a parking lot for free on some highway in Woodbridge or wherever?

I'm curious as to how much of the traffic for these huge family-friendly restaurants was local. The demographics of the neighbourhood has significantly changed, and has far fewer large multi-generational Greek families. As a result, I think there has been a lot of pressure on restaurants that cater to large groups of casual diners in an inexpensive family-friendly atmosphere, like Friendly Greek and Mr. Greek, as opposed to places that are more oriented towards couples and small groups of adults willing to spend more money, like Pan, Mezes, and some of the other smaller Greek places. People are far more likely travel to the neighbourhood for the latter kind of dining, whereas I'd think that large, family-oriented ethnic restaurants are far more dependent on the makeup of the local populace, and when neighbourhood ethnicity shifts, they are left out.

Astoria seems to be one of the few family-oriented Greek restaurants on the strip that is still doing well.

 

[Ex-Montreal Girl]

I'm curious as to how much of the traffic for these huge family-friendly restaurants was local. The demographics of the neighbourhood has significantly changed, and has far fewer large multi-generational Greek families. As a result, I think there has been a lot of pressure on restaurants that cater to large groups of casual diners in an inexpensive family-friendly atmosphere, like Friendly Greek and Mr. Greek, as opposed to places that are more oriented towards couples and small groups of adults willing to spend more money, like Pan, Mezes, and some of the other smaller Greek places. People are far more likely travel to the neighbourhood for the latter kind of dining, whereas I'd think that large, family-oriented ethnic restaurants are far more dependent on the makeup of the local populace, and when neighbourhood ethnicity shifts, they are left out.

Astoria seems to be one of the few family-oriented Greek restaurants on the strip that is still doing well.

Exactly.

I missed the Greek parade action yesterday so I didn't see how much traffic the restaurants were getting. I imagine it was a big day for the big family-friendly ones like Astoria, Pantheon etc.

Incidentally, I did walk by Mr. Greek on Saturday and, among the thanks for 25 years signs, was one saying watch for a new Danforth location. So who knows? Downsizing?

 

[christiesplits]

A lot of the restaurants keep afloat with Greek family birthdays and events, large catering operations, the two annual parades, and of course, the Taste of the Danforth. A rainy Taste of the Danforth weekend spells disaster for some of the establishments.

 

[Skeezix]

We assume the restaurant was doing poorly, which may or may not have been the case, but maybe they couldn't come to terms with the landlord (a common refrain on the Danforth) or the place was simply too large most nights.

 

[Tulse]

A lot of the restaurants keep afloat with Greek family birthdays and events, large catering operations, the two annual parades, and of course, the Taste of the Danforth. A rainy Taste of the Danforth weekend spells disaster for some of the establishments.

A business model that depends on five good days a year doesn't seem very sustainable to me. I would think in the restaurant business that you need a solid base of reliable custom throughout the year to have a chance of surviving.

We assume the restaurant was doing poorly, which may or may not have been the case, but maybe they couldn't come to terms with the landlord (a common refrain on the Danforth) or the place was simply too large most nights.

If the place is too large, then they are doing poorly relative to their facilities. In that case, downsizing makes perfect sense.

As for rents, I'm a bit confused as to how it can be the case that a) they are so high, and yet b) there are seemingly so many vacancies. Something seems seriously out of whack.

 

[Skeezix]

If the place is too large, then they are doing poorly relative to their facilities. In that case, downsizing makes perfect sense.

As for rents, I'm a bit confused as to how it can be the case that a) they are so high, and yet b) there are seemingly so many vacancies. Something seems seriously out of whack.

Fair enough. Poorly is a subjective term, though. I was thinking more in terms that they were doing okay, but figured at the end of their lease that they could do better in a smaller space. Whether that is performing poorly is a matter of semantics, I suppose.

There does seem to be a rash of vacancies in 2015. The province's Vacancy Rebate Application program is always part of the problem. It provides property tax rebates when commercial property is vacant, which enables allows some landlords to be more speculative than they otherwise used to be able to do, holding out for the best tenant/highest rent they can. Some times the effect manifests itself more noticeably than other times.