Quebec-Windsor Corridor

[Urban Sky]

My fantasy would be for CPCK to move their main line onto the south shore to bypass the island of Montreal. CPKC's track (Winchester, Vaudreuil, and Westmount Subs) east of the Alexandra Sub could be taken over by VIA (and Exo) to ensure reliable operations to and on the island.

Freight access to the island could be maintained for local deliveries either after hours or via their Saint-Laurent Railway Bridge (on the Adirondack sub). It then might make sense for CPKC to move the Cote St. Luke yard to the south shore, freeing the land up for development.

In a perfect world, the same would be done with CN's Kingston Sub on the island to give VIA/Exo control of quadruple track, allowing VIA to easily pass Exo trains and for frequencies of both to increase. This might be a harder sell though, given the way CN's network is laid out on the island.

I struggle to get my head around this. Would you be able to crudely sketch it on/as a map?

 

[just east of the creek]

I struggle to get my head around this. Would you be able to crudely sketch it on/as a map?

I look forward to a sketch and then any explanation as to why either of CPKC or CN would want to buy into this? And some overview of how the port will be serviced? Perhaps VIA and EXo might want to consider building or augmenting to the existing trackage to improve services?

 

[crs1026]

I'm gonna take a wild eyed guess and speculate that the idea is to relay track on, say, the abandoned line from Delson over to around Ormstown and end up at Coteau du Lac ? Or thru Kahnawake?

I can't imagine that either CP or CN would welcome this idea, let alone the townspeople along the way.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

I look forward to a sketch and then any explanation as to why either of CPKC or CN would want to buy into this? And some overview of how the port will be serviced? Perhaps VIA and EXo might want to consider building or augmenting to the existing trackage to improve services?

I feel that the biggest reason could be the value of that land. The only issue maybe how polluted the land is and the costs of remediation.

 

[Bordercollie]

I'm curious as to why in the past switcher locomotives would pickup the train from Union station and tow the train to TMC (back in the day) but now that is not necessary. What was the reason why a line haul locomotive couldn't continue to the yard?

 

[micheal_can]

I'll be taking a train between Ottawa and Montreal next weekend (25-26) Would all runs be the new fleet?

 

[Mihairokov]

I'll be taking a train between Ottawa and Montreal next weekend (25-26) Would all runs be the new fleet?

The following page has a list of all routes which currently operate on the new trainset: https://www.viarail.ca/en/plan/new-fleet

 

[micheal_can]

Thank you. It appears both will be.

Am I permitted to post pictures from my trip here?

 

[smallspy]

I'm curious as to why in the past switcher locomotives would pickup the train from Union station and tow the train to TMC (back in the day) but now that is not necessary. What was the reason why a line haul locomotive couldn't continue to the yard?

A whole bunch of reasons. Staffing requirements and restrictions. Crewing regulations with the unions. Equipment cycling requirements.

In the long run all of these were done away with, and so here we are.

Dan

 

[roger1818]

I struggle to get my head around this. Would you be able to crudely sketch it on/as a map?

Here is a rough sketch of what I am talking about. The black line represents my proposed new CPCK main line. I drew it as a very rough approximation of existing and former corridors, and there are other options. CPKC would still have access to Cote St. Luke yard (if they kept it), the Parc Sub and the Outremont Spur. The spurs off of the Vaudreuil could be accessed after hours.

There are many obstacles to this actually happening, but I did say it is a fantasy.

 

[Urban Sky]

Here is a rough sketch of what I am talking about. The black line represents my proposed new CPCK main line. I drew it as a very rough approximation of existing and former corridors, and there are other options. CPKC would still have access to Cote St. Luke yard (if they kept it), the Parc Sub and the Outremont Spur. The spurs off of the Vaudreuil could be accessed after hours.

There are many obstacles to this actually happening, but I did say it is a fantasy.

View attachment 564425

This certainly is a sizeable bypass, but what is the problem again you are trying to fix?

 

[roger1818]

This certainly is a sizeable bypass,

Not clear on my map, but about 25 km of it is on existing track (about 9 owned by VIA and the remainder owned by CN). The remaining approx. 50 km is on abandoned ROWs. It would also likely require grade separation with CN's Kingston Sub. Not a short bypass, but I am not sure how you would expect bypassing Canada's second largest city would be short.

but what is the problem again you are trying to fix?

Give VIA and Exo a passenger dedicated ROW to/on the island of Montreal. It also gets freight not bound for Montreal, off of the island.

Before you say it, I recognize this is in no way CPKC's responsibility, so it should in no way be funded by them and they would likely expect some compensation as well. For this reason, it likely won't happen, but I can dream. I suspect it would be cheaper than trying to expropriate a new ROW on the island for VIA.

 

[Urban Sky]

Give VIA and Exo a passenger dedicated ROW to/on the island of Montreal. It also gets freight not bound for Montreal, off of the island.

But here is my problem: I don’t see any place on the Winchester Subdivision west east of De Beaujeu where adding a third track would pose any major headache. Assuming that CP can be satisfied with exclusive use of a single track with semi frequent sidings (like east west of De Beaujeu), I don’t see what otherwise unsurmountable problem the CP main corridor TRTO-MTRL-SJNB would pose for any passenger rail services in or around Montreal, which could possibly justify investing billions over billions in a freight bypass…

 

[roger1818]

But here is my problem: I don’t see any place on the Winchester Subdivision west of De Beaujeu where adding a third track would pose any major headache. Assuming that CP can be satisfied with exclusive use of a single track with semi frequent sidings (like east of De Beaujeu), I don’t see what otherwise unsurmountable problem the CP main corridor TRTO-MTRL-SJNB would pose for any passenger rail services in or around Montreal, which could possibly justify investing billions over billions in a freight bypass…

I'm confused. How would a third track on the Winchester Sub, west of De Beaujeu help improve frequency between Ottawa and Montreal? From what I have heard, the bottleneck is at Coteau, and detouring VIA trains onto the Winchester Sub (east of De Beaujeu) and the Vaudreuil Sub should help with that. With both Exo and CPKC using the Vaudreuil Sub, rerouting CPKC's mainline off of the island would make slots for more VIA trains. Maybe this isn't a problem and there are lots of slots available on the Vaudreuil sub, but I suspect not.

 

[Urban Sky]

I'm confused. How would a third track on the Winchester Sub, west of De Beaujeu help improve frequency between Ottawa and Montreal? From what I have heard, the bottleneck is at Coteau, and detouring VIA trains onto the Winchester Sub (east of De Beaujeu) and the Vaudreuil Sub should help with that. With both Exo and CPKC using the Vaudreuil Sub, rerouting CPKC's mainline off of the island would make slots for more VIA trains. Maybe this isn't a problem and there are lots of slots available on the Vaudreuil sub, but I suspect not.

My apologies, it’s not you it’s me: I got mixed up with east and west…!