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Provincial Highway Service Centres

Same old, same old. I don't really know why I complain....I always patronise the locals off the highways anyway.

I was just hoping for a change for the better. Though, I might as well expect to win the lottery.

Right. Future diabetics....march! (er, drive!)
 
Same old, same old. I don't really know why I complain....I always patronise the locals off the highways anyway.

I was just hoping for a change for the better. Though, I might as well expect to win the lottery.

Right. Future diabetics....march! (er, drive!)

My goodness, such a sad disposition ... Try imagining this:
20 new, bright, LEED certified service stops on our 400 highways. A change for the better, if you've travelled the province at all and patronized the old, slow and dirty park and pukes of the past couple of decades.
Picture or look at some of the renderings of the new sites and imagine the local and Ontario theme incorporated into the designs.
Imagine all of those refurbished sites reclaimed from an environmental perspective ... no more leaking tanks and hydrocarbon filled cesspools at every stop!
Imagine patronizing the locals if you wish, but having the opportunity to try something new and convenient, right on the highway (staffed by hard working locals for the most part - I'm sure they'd be as pleased as ever to ensure you have a good experience).
Imagine you've won the lottery and might not be a future diabetic ... here are some of the choices (many Canadian owned and controlled) you'll have soon (try to tell us it is just the ole same old, same old, MTown):
The Ontario Service Centres' quick service dining brands will be introduced in four phases.
Phase 1

- A&W - Kentucky Fried Chicken - The Market (retail,
- Burger King - Pizza Pizza sundries)
- Cold Stone Creamery - Taco Bell - Tim Hortons

Additional quick service dining brands will be provided in phases 2, 3 and 4, which will include but not be limited to:

- Brioche Dorée - New York Fries - Starbucks Coffee
- Casey's - Quiznos - Teriyaki Experience
- East Side Mario's - Pusateri's - Yogen Früz/Cinnabon
- Extreme Pita

To tell you the truth, I don't really know why you complain, either. I'm going to have fun "hitting the road" again soon. I think I'm going to get 300km per charge out of my gas to electric conversion ... so I'll just be stopping to rest and dine in a nice, new service area. I hear they might be able to sell me an electric charge in the near future, too! What else could you want?
 
Ontario taxpayers finance Highway 401 service centre makeovers
Government says province will recover $200 million investment over 50 years
Published On Thu Jun 17 2010EmailPrintRepublishAdd to Favourites Report an error
http://www.thestar.com/business/art...nce-highway-401-service-centre-makeovers?bn=1

John Spears
Business Reporter
Danny Gallagher
Special to the Star

Zero to $200 million in three months.

That’s how Ontario taxpayers’ commitment has grown toward financing the reconstruction of nearly all the service stations with direct access to Highways 401 and 400.

No one had expected the massive job to be quick or easy.

But motorists who are now enduring bladder-busting gaps between service centres as they close for renovations were originally told that the company awarded the contract to rebuild and run the stations would pay the bill.

“The province will not have to invest taxpayer dollars into redeveloping and maintaining this vital government service,†a question-and-answer section of the Ministry of Transportation website said in February.

Then in April, when a contract was awarded to Host Kilmer Service Centres – a partnership that includes the Toronto Maple Leafs’ part-owner Larry Tanenbaum – Host Kilmer said it was on the hook for about $100 million of the $300 million redevelopment cost.

The rest of the money – $200 million – will come from the public purse. Government officials now say the province will “fully recover†its investment over the life of the 50-year deal through a revenue-sharing agreement. They will not disclose details.

Host Kilmer, meanwhile, trumpets in a press release that it will rake in revenue of $100 million a year from operating the service centres – or $9 billion over the life of the agreement.

The Star asked the office of Transportation Minister Kathleen Wynne why the province is now financing two-thirds of the renovation cost. The inquiry was referred to ministry spokesman Bob Nichols, who replied in writing.

“Responses to the tender indicated that operation of the centres was not as remunerative as initially estimated,†he said.

“Negotiations with bidders were undertaken at the height of the lending crisis, which also made operating the service centres less attractive.â€

Nichols would only say that payments to the government under the revenue sharing agreement may vary from year to year so it is impossible to tell how soon the province will be repaid.

Gilles Bisson, transportation critic for the opposition New Democrats, said the new arrangement is not transparent.

“There’s a fundamental question to be asked: Should the province be in the business of providing this service?†said Bisson.

“I say yes; some will say no. If you say yes, then run it. If you say no, then privatize the damn thing.â€

Instead, he said, the hybrid deal leaves too much unclear.

Few motorists would disagree that the 23 service centres along the big highways need work. Food courts were dingy, and washrooms aging, showing the wear and tear of serving highways travelled by more than 500,000 people a day.

The three oil companies who had held the leases for the stations were no longer interested in the centres because of “the age of the sites and the potential operating risks,†said ministry spokeswoman Emna Dahak.

Due to decisions made decades ago, the operating agreements are all expiring in rapid succession.

As the old agreements run out, the oil companies who held the concessions have to take out the old underground fuel tanks and clean up any contaminated soil – a job that takes up to nine months.

Conservative transportation critic Frank Klees said the closures have been badly handled.

“There are too many service centres not open,†said Klees. “In the high summer season, there aren’t enough of them open.â€

Faye Lyons of the Canadian Auto Association said the centres needed the attention to serve motorists.

“At the end of the day they’re going to have new service centres that are going to provide them with much better service, and better quality of buildings,†she said.

The association did have concern about the gaps between centres as they began to close for renovations, and met with ministry officials earlier this year.

The ministry improved signage to warn motorists in areas where they faced large gaps between centres, Lyons said.





At the moment, nine service centres are fully open, and nine closed. Five are partially open, with washrooms, water, telephones and vending machines, but no fuel.

Seven more sites are due to open with partial services in July 2010 and be fully operational by September 2010.

Work on the remaining centres will continue into 2013. Three of the 23 service centres were renovated in the 1990s and are not part of the current cycle, but will be reviewed before 2018.

Once the environmental clean-up is finished, Host Kilmer moves in to demolish the old restaurants, and rebuild.

Host Kilmer is a partnership between Maryland-based HMSHost Corp., which operates turnpike service stations in the U.S., and Tanenbaum’s Kilmer Van Nostrand Co. Ltd.

Host Kilmer awarded the gasoline concession at all 23 service centres to Canadian Tire, which will operate its own stores on the site and sell fuel under the company’s Gas+ brand.

The roster of food court suppliers will also change. Tim Hortons remains, but Mr. Sub will not.

Tenants will include Quiznos, Casey’s, East Side Mario’s, Extreme Pita, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Taco Bell, Pizza Pizza, Yogen Fruz, New York Fries, Teriyaki Experience, Starbucks, A & W, Burger King, Brioche Doree, Bento Nouveau and Cold Stone Creamery.

The new centres are designed by Quadrangle Architects of Toronto and will be environmentally friendly, meeting LEED standards set by the U.S. Green Building Council. The food court building features sloped glass walls, sloped metal roofs, earthy colours, tile floors, wooden canopies and stone veneer.

“The building is made of natural stone and wood, which reflects traditional Ontario architecture,’’ said Anna Madeira, Quadrangle’s project architect.

“We spent considerable time and effort in designing it so that water consumption will be reduced substantially in the washrooms which are a big part of these centres.

“For example, we have used waterless urinals in the men’s washrooms and we have specified low-flow faucets in the lavatories. The plant species are local species and have been chosen to endure without permanent irrigation.â€

Madeira said energy-efficient glazing allows for natural light in both customer seating areas and the interior areas. At night, the light of the atrium will act as a traveller’s beacon.
 
:mad:

Let's start there..................this makes me angry.

The financing of this by tax-payers is just plain wrong.

I describe myself as (among other things) a fiscally conservative socialist. Meaning I believe in gov't role in certain program areas (ie. health & education) and tend to favour bigger and better over 1/2 efforts, in those fields I believe government's role to be legit.

But I don't believe in wasting money, in deficits, in needless bureaucracy or most of all in subsidizing private enterprise!

This manages to offend every capitalist, every socialists and just about everyone in-between.

EITHER the gov't should own and operate such facilities (either at the real estate/building level, leasing to whomever) or as the full-service provider OR it should put it out to tender, privatize it, and have nothing to do with it except accepting the highest big offer.

This in-between, not as advertised piece of.......does not pass either the smell test or the common sense test. ICK!
 
:mad:

Let's start there..................this makes me angry.

The financing of this by tax-payers is just plain wrong.

I describe myself as (among other things) a fiscally conservative socialist. Meaning I believe in gov't role in certain program areas (ie. health & education) and tend to favour bigger and better over 1/2 efforts, in those fields I believe government's role to be legit.

But I don't believe in wasting money, in deficits, in needless bureaucracy or most of all in subsidizing private enterprise!

This manages to offend every capitalist, every socialists and just about everyone in-between.

EITHER the gov't should own and operate such facilities (either at the real estate/building level, leasing to whomever) or as the full-service provider OR it should put it out to tender, privatize it, and have nothing to do with it except accepting the highest big offer.

This in-between, not as advertised piece of.......does not pass either the smell test or the common sense test. ICK!

You realize that by "financing" the government merely provided loans. We'll get the money back interest. With credit markets frozen in 2008 either the government financed this or the service centers would have sat empty for a while until credit markets recovered.
 
If we built our highways on narrower rights of way we wouldn't need separate service centres on each side.
autogrill-458x300.jpg


I once saw a diagram of an Ontario highway compared to a Norwiegan highway, both with the same number of lanes. The entire Norwiegan highway would fit into the median of the Ontario one.
 
In rural areas, what are the advantages of narrow highways? I've always been impressed with the American interstates. In rural places, the right of way is often huge. At night, there's never any issue with headlights of vehicles travelling in the opposite direction and when accidents occur, there's no chance of vehicles crossing onto the other side.
 
In rural areas, what are the advantages of narrow highways? I've always been impressed with the American interstates. In rural places, the right of way is often huge. At night, there's never any issue with headlights of vehicles travelling in the opposite direction and when accidents occur, there's no chance of vehicles crossing onto the other side.
Land acquisition and construction costs. Where land is cheap and the terrain is flat it's not a big deal, but I'll give the example of the new sections of Highways 400 and 11 - massive rock cuts that could be half the size (and cost) if those highways were built to European standards.
 
Even with wide, North American standard medians, the median service centre such as the Angola plaza on the NYS Thruway between Buffalo and Erie, has all the restaurants accessible from both sides. The service plazas on Interstate 88 in rural Illinois are interesting because they are on one side of the tollway, but traffic in the other direction accesses it by ramps, though travel between eastbound and westbound is separated into separate parking lots and fuel pumps. The same with some rest areas on Interstate 55.

The headlight problem has been mitigated by the "Ontario tall-wall", which is far superior to the shorter Jersey barrier for head-on crash prevention and on-coming headlights. I would really like to see the tall wall replace the old, rusting steel box barrier on Highway 400 and even Highway 11 north of Barrie.
 
^ The main issue with central medians is merging into the fast lane. A lot of passenger drivers are intimidated by it and you need more space to get a tractor trailer up to speed. I’ve seen cars underpassing on the 401 between the exit and entrance for the Service Centre near Guelph; I don’t they’d behave better for one on the left.

:mad:
Let's start there..................this makes me angry.
The financing of this by tax-payers is just plain wrong.
I describe myself as (among other things) a fiscally conservative socialist. Meaning I believe in gov't role in certain program areas (ie. health & education) and tend to favour bigger and better over 1/2 efforts, in those fields I believe government's role to be legit.
But I don't believe in wasting money, in deficits, in needless bureaucracy or most of all in subsidizing private enterprise!
This manages to offend every capitalist, every socialists and just about everyone in-between.
EITHER the gov't should own and operate such facilities (either at the real estate/building level, leasing to whomever) or as the full-service provider OR it should put it out to tender, privatize it, and have nothing to do with it except accepting the highest big offer.
This in-between, not as advertised piece of.......does not pass either the smell test or the common sense test. ICK!
So you don’t like to define yourself in black and white terms, but you want the government’s role to be black and white? Do you think the government will run the facility better than the private sector? Do you think the government will make more money by selling off dysfunctional assets than redeveloped ones? Do you think it’s bad for the government to spend money now on an investment that will improve road safety (think of tried truckers pulling over) and pay for itself?

The last batch of Service Centres mostly went under because it was government run and rents weren’t flexible enough to meet tenets needs. This is an attempt at doing it better without selling Manhattan Island for a handful of beads. So long as the process is open and transparent, it passes my common sense test.
 
The Angola service plaza is built on a median, but the ramps are on the right side, there's two separate parking lots and two separate fuel stations, but you cross a bridge to get to the restaurants in the median.

See for yourself.

I agree, I do not like left-lane entry to a freeway in most cases.
 
I had my first look at one of the new structures on the westbound 401 just west of Trenton. It is large and "air-y" looking. There is a lot of glass and the predominant interior color is white. The food outlets are not yet open. Signs indicate that they will have The Market (convenience store?), Tim Hortons, Cold Stone Creamery (ice cream, associated with Tims) and A&W. Nothing against any of these, but I hope there might be one or two more. I won't say that the place is exciting, but it looks clean (in design) and attractive.

The brand name for these centres is ONroute. The logo on the highway signs has white lettering on a distinctive pale green background.
 
Maybe The Market is the one by marketed by Longo's? I'm sad to see the McDonald's and Wendy's go, but the variety is pretty nice.

Went on a road trip to Montreal a few weeks ago and almost all of the ones I wanted to go to were closed. Very inconvenient.

Anyone know if these are common in other provinces?
 
The Market is not by Longos. It is by Canadian Tire. Canadian Tire will be operating all the gas stations and all the 'markets'. Any one looking for any different type of food outlets -- other than the 'generics' -- will be disappointed.

A few weeks ago, I had read an article -- I believe it was in The Globe and Mail -- about the rest stops and various types of food outlets to come. I wish had known that this thread did exist.

If in future, I did come across any news item about the rest stops, I shall post the link.
 

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