Prostitution

[T.O.Fanatic]

Smoke's poutinerie is amazing! and for my second point....

The argument toward liberalisation on prostitution is similar to that for marijuana:
(a) it happens anyway

I have never heard a dumber argument for legalizing something, lots of things 'happen anyway' but you don't go and make them legal. I can understand that arresting prostitutes doesen't necessarily work and may be rather opressive, but creative measures against the pimps should be employed. I don't think many women 'choose' to become prostitutes.

 

[whatever]

It's not the franchise that puts the stickers up, it's the customers. They have free stickers out on the counter (right beside the condiments and napkins) and patrons take it upon themselves to slap them up around the neighbourhood.

As mentioned previously, it's not the prostitution that creates the safety issues, it's the drug users. I've lived in the general area for years, and I've never felt unsafe on Jarvis or even in Allan Gardens, but there's no way I'll go anywhere near those streets east of Jarvis and south of Gerrard. The area has cleaned up a lot in the last 5 years tho, so maybe things are changing

 

[afransen]

I think legalizing it would make pimps irrelevant. If a woman isn't doing anything illegal by being a prostitute, she'd be more likely to report violence, abuse, theft, etc. by pimps.

 

[adma]

It's not the franchise that puts the stickers up, it's the customers. They have free stickers out on the counter (right beside the condiments and napkins) and patrons take it upon themselves to slap them up around the neighbourhood.

Which is a "be careful what you wish for" message when it comes to viral marketing, i.e. in the hands of drunken douchebags...

Wait, I just noticed. This is a putain thread, not a poutine thread;-)

 

[Long Island Mike]

Everyone: I recall that parts of Toronto back in the 80s had streetwalkers working in places - on one trip I made in the Summer of 1988 I stayed at the Neill-Wycik College Hotel
(www.neill-wycik.com) and I remember being propositioned by two local "working girls" who were quite attractive far and away then the skank that worked NYC streets in that same era...I recall respectfully declining their offer for services and that they even noticed my accent and that the friends that I was traveling along with were actually very impressed...I remember that the Gerrard/Jarvis area was a place that the ladies worked.

I have never used a streetwalker's services but I feel that with strict rules and regulations that this could fulfill a need and keep the criminal element at bay with what seems to go along with the World's Oldest Profession like Pimps,drug use/addiction and social diseases among other problems. The Toronto Police can use their resources to fight serious crime instead of wasting a Vice Squad's time trying to eradicate a problem that may never totally go away regardless.

Thoughts and Memories from LI MIKE

 

[shyne68]

Clear your heads those who support legalizing solicitation or supporting legalized prostitution. IF and a big IF solicitation were targeted at functioning, able-minded and consenting ADULTS, one could argue their position, however, the REALITY is.....most often those that are solicited are minors, vulnerable adults and youth (developmentally delayed and/or having a mental illness) or children and youth....anyone who honestly believes or is of the opinion that prostitutes CHOOSE that avenue of 'life' are sadly mistaken. Many prostitutes or 'escorts' are coerced, threatened and brainwashed into succumbing to the filth of the streets. Vulnerable people being exploited by predators. Legalizing anything with regards to prostitution does nothing to protect and save those that cannot protect and save themselves, it only acts as a shield giving predators more free reign. Sick!

 

[Towered]

You make it sound as if there's no market demand for these services.

 

[Torontovibe]

Clear your heads those who support legalizing solicitation or supporting legalized prostitution. IF and a big IF solicitation were targeted at functioning, able-minded and consenting ADULTS, one could argue their position, however, the REALITY is.....most often those that are solicited are minors, vulnerable adults and youth (developmentally delayed and/or having a mental illness) or children and youth....anyone who honestly believes or is of the opinion that prostitutes CHOOSE that avenue of 'life' are sadly mistaken. Many prostitutes or 'escorts' are coerced, threatened and brainwashed into succumbing to the filth of the streets. Vulnerable people being exploited by predators. Legalizing anything with regards to prostitution does nothing to protect and save those that cannot protect and save themselves, it only acts as a shield giving predators more free reign. Sick!

How will making it legal change any of that? It already exists, so what's your point? I laugh when I hear people say things like if they legalize prostitution, whore houses will open right next door to where they live, as if people aren't doing it already. I had a prostitute live above my apartment for 5 years. What's the big deal? Legalizing it won't change much for most people.

 

[EnviroTO]

I have more issue with solicitation than prostitution. I have problem enough with people asking for "bus fare" or "money for food" or "a quarter to make a phone call" (knowing that it is a load of crap). I definitely don't want to be walking down the street with people asking "want to do me up the rear for $50". If they make prostitution legal hopefully the end result is less solicitation and better enforcement against solicitation, a drop in the criminal activity in the industry (pimping, abuse, human trafficking), and improved screening and health controls. What is the difference between legal prostitution and a wild college dorm beyond the transfer of money? At least with prostitution the nature of the relationship is a little more clear to both participants and maybe it is even less emotionally damaging.

The argument toward liberalisation on prostitution is similar to that for marijuana:
(a) it happens anyway

Dumb argument to be sure. I am pretty sure all crimes happen anyway. In a society where the government and society at large takes no responsibility for the other people in society and human development and well being (housing, health, education, public works, etc) there might be a place for views such as "I don't care what other people do with themselves". Hopefully we never live in that type of society. If there is measurable harm to the general public (including growth in services covered by taxes) then we ought to be concerned. If there is no measurable harm to the general public then we ought not to be.

 

[archanfel]

I can never understand why the conservatives are generally against prostitution. What happened to free enterprise? What happened to government staying out of people's life?

EnviroTo, crimes take away people's choices. I don't think prostitution does that unless the workers were forced which by itself would be a crime. Although I also find solicitation annoying, the law should be blind, we either tolerate them or we ban all of them. I don't see any reason to ban them since I usually just ignore all solicitation anyway. I would also expect prostitution would be professionalized once it's legalized. Some companies will have a brand for professional service, safe sex, protected privacy, etc...

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Clear your heads those who support legalizing solicitation or supporting legalized prostitution. IF and a big IF solicitation were targeted at functioning, able-minded and consenting ADULTS, one could argue their position, however, the REALITY is.....most often those that are solicited are minors, vulnerable adults and youth (developmentally delayed and/or having a mental illness) or children and youth....anyone who honestly believes or is of the opinion that prostitutes CHOOSE that avenue of 'life' are sadly mistaken. Many prostitutes or 'escorts' are coerced, threatened and brainwashed into succumbing to the filth of the streets. Vulnerable people being exploited by predators. Legalizing anything with regards to prostitution does nothing to protect and save those that cannot protect and save themselves, it only acts as a shield giving predators more free reign. Sick!

you have not provided any good arguments to jail or fine a consenting adult who pays money or receives money to have sexual intercourse with a consenting adult. the bad things you describe are pretty much applicable to any other field of work.

you can also apply it to....

however, the REALITY is.....most often those that are indoctrinated are minors, vulnerable adults and youth (developmentally delayed and/or having a mental illness) or children and youth....anyone who honestly believes or is of the opinion that religious people CHOOSE that avenue of 'life' are sadly mistaken. Many religious people or 'believers' are coerced, threatened and brainwashed into succumbing to the doctrine of the religion. Vulnerable people being exploited by religious leaders. Legalizing anything with regards to religion does nothing to protect and save those that cannot protect and save themselves, it only acts as a shield giving religious leaders more free reign. Sick!

which is pretty much true. should all religion be made illegal?

 

[shyne68]

AND I QUOTE AGAIN............IF and a big IF solicitation were targeted at functioning, able-minded and consenting ADULTS, one could argue their position, however, the REALITY is.....most often those that are solicited are minors, vulnerable adults and youth....DOES ANYONE READ POSTS THOROUGHLY before inserting remarks back that make absolutely no sense or argue something that wasn't stated. And at what point did I ever make mention of 'jail' or 'fines'? I am WELL AWARE that prostitution is legal..if you READ my previous comment, it's not about legalizing prostitution at all...what it is about, is the fact that most often, those that are coerced into prostitution are those that are NOT CONSENTING ADULTS.....or adults INCAPABLE OF MAKING INFORMED CONSENT because they suffer from mental illness and/or a developmental delay....if prostitution were limited to CONSENTING ADULTS then I suppose once could say it's a personal choice, but we all know that's NOT the way it is!! Am I right? okay, so now that THAT is sorted out...let's read what 'you' have to say. In addition, to compare religion to prostitution is just lame. If you're against organized religion, then start a thread on that, don't try to compare the two, it just sounds desperate.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

AND I QUOTE AGAIN............IF and a big IF solicitation were targeted at functioning, able-minded and consenting ADULTS, one could argue their position, however, the REALITY is.....most often those that are solicited are minors, vulnerable adults and youth....DOES ANYONE READ POSTS THOROUGHLY before inserting remarks back that make absolutely no sense or argue something that wasn't stated. And at what point did I ever make mention of 'jail' or 'fines'? I am WELL AWARE that prostitution is legal..if you READ my previous comment, it's not about legalizing prostitution at all...what it is about, is the fact that most often, those that are coerced into prostitution are those that are NOT CONSENTING ADULTS.....or adults INCAPABLE OF MAKING INFORMED CONSENT because they suffer from mental illness and/or a developmental delay....if prostitution were limited to CONSENTING ADULTS then I suppose once could say it's a personal choice, but we all know that's NOT the way it is!! Am I right? okay, so now that THAT is sorted out...let's read what 'you' have to say. In addition, to compare religion to prostitution is just lame. If you're against organized religion, then start a thread on that, don't try to compare the two, it just sounds desperate.

Legalizing and licensing sex trade workers would make it a whole lot easier to protect and get the minority of those who are developmentally delayed/have mental illness/youths & minors you speak of off the street and into the hands of help that they might need whether it be counseling, social services, housing, drug/alcohol rehabilitation, job training, legal services and the like.
Am I right? OK, so now that THAT is sorted out....

 

[tkip]

I think legalizing it would make pimps irrelevant. If a woman isn't doing anything illegal by being a prostitute, she'd be more likely to report violence, abuse, theft, etc. by pimps.

I wouldn't count on that happening. The reality is that legalizing it probalby won't make things safer for women.

Everywhere there's prositution there are pimps controlling things. Even apparenly in Amsterdam from what I understand, the pimps and organized crime control the girls in the red light district. The only instances of where pimps aren't involved are supposedly with high end escorts and even then I think there men behind the scenes pulling the strings.

As one person posted, most women do not willingly sell their bodies because they have nothing better to do.

I've talked with several people that have an understanding of the industry and all I hear are horror stories. There is not one happy scenerio they've been able to talk about. Just sheer exploitation, abuse and human trafficing. And remember, the vast majority of women and girls involved with the sex trade either had no other option or this was the best way out of poverity. And yes, violence is very common and many are forced into prositution.

It's beyond being naive to think that legalizing this will change the nasty and oppressive nature of this business.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

Sex trade workers are never going away, they'll continue to do their thing under the radar in often unsafe conditions until we can make some headway to, at the very least, making them safer and providing them services which are mostly otherwise denied because of the laws currently in place. Fully legalizing the sex trade industry could be a first step in that direction. Doing nothing solves nothing, and that's where we are right now. This whole Victorian mindset about sex being a bad or dirty thing really has to end, it's so old and tired already. People want it, others are willing to sell it and so be it. Let's at least consider giving them the protection, access to services and education that could make what they do so much healthier and safer for everyone involved.