Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Wynne being mean would backfire she already seen as unlikeable already.

She isn't going to morph into being likeable in three months - she can morph into the ruthless in 3 days.

AoD

 

[animatronic]

Wynne being mean would backfire she already seen as unlikeable already.

She acts like a leader while her attack dogs go for the throat. This is politics 101.

 

[kEiThZ]

Cap and trade isn't a tax, by any stretch of any explanatory word-magic.

I completely forgot about the health premium! Cheers for reminding me....I guess.

What are these eco fees you speak of?

Car licensing fees are used to upkeep and regulate roadways, no? Are they a tax or a user fee? The two aren't the same thing unless we start considering our phone and internet bills to be a tax.

I hope you're self-aware enough to realize that this is entirely a Liberal point-of-view.

A lot of regular voters are not going to see it like this.

 

[BurlOak]

Well, the Albertans used the money to keep taxes low which kept the people happy because the people weren't smart enough to realise that their futures were being sold out for more cars, TVs, phones, ATVs, etc now.
I'm not sure Albertans in general realised that their taxes were being kept low only because of the oil money. I imagine they all sort of thought that what they were getting for their taxes was a damn good deal.

It sound you are campaigning for Alberta to separate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_separatism

Basically, Alberta has been carrying the rest of the country for the 15 years that the Liberals have been in power in Ontario. Ontario is a net contributor, but nowhere near the extent she was back when governed by Harris, Davis, and even Rae.
Alberta gives more than it gets from federal government: Fraser Institute

Alberta contributed more money to the federal purse than any other province in Canada from 2007 to 2015, and has received fewer dollars in return, according to a study released Thursday.

The study by the Fraser Institute — a conservative, free market policy think tank — found the province contributed $221.4 billion more in revenue than it received in federal transfer payments and other services in those years.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It sound you are campaigning for Alberta to separate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_separatism

Basically, Alberta has been carrying the rest of the country for the 15 years that the Liberals have been in power in Ontario. Ontario is a net contributor, but nowhere near the extent she was back when governed by Harris, Davis, and even Rae.
Alberta gives more than it gets from federal government: Fraser Institute

But why does Alberta have a deficit if its fiscal capacity is so high? Simple: its tax rates are low. To illustrate this, I plot Alberta’s actual revenue as a percentage of what could be raised if each province had tax rates equal to the current national average. Alberta is, by far, the lowest tax jurisdiction (nearly 30% below the national average) while Quebec is the highest (nearly 30% above). Alberta’s deficit is a choice, and largely unrelated to the federal equalization program.

https://www.policyschool.ca/unpacking-canadas-equalization-payments-2018-19/

AoD

 

[SunriseChampion]

I hope you're self-aware enough to realize that this is entirely a Liberal point-of-view.

A lot of regular voters are not going to see it like this.

I'm self-aware enough to know that I'm not a Liberal so I'm going to go ahead and say that it can't be an entirely Liberal point-of-view.

I can agree with the second bit....don't I just know it.

 

[SunriseChampion]

It sound you are campaigning for Alberta to separate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_separatism

Basically, Alberta has been carrying the rest of the country for the 15 years that the Liberals have been in power in Ontario. Ontario is a net contributor, but nowhere near the extent she was back when governed by Harris, Davis, and even Rae.
Alberta gives more than it gets from federal government: Fraser Institute

I also give more than I get back in relation to most being a middle-income single person in (knock on wood) tip top health who gets exactly 0$ back in exemptions, entitlements, write-offs, etc. Maybe I should campaign for me to separate.

Alberta relied on oil revenue to keep the good times going and when that stopped being the cash cow that it once was.....15B$ deficit. Instead of using stable, reliable revenue sources they tried to have it all with low taxes. You can't have it both ways. Maths isn't magic (though, I would have disagreed with this view back in high school during my advanced algebra days...I didn't do too well and did rather think of it as being some sort of voodoo).

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I also give more than I get back in relation to most being a middle-income single person in (knock on wood) tip top health who gets exactly 0$ back in exemptions, entitlements, write-offs, etc. Maybe I should campaign for me to separate.

Alberta relied on oil revenue to keep the good times going and when that stopped being the cash cow that it once was.....15B$ deficit. Instead of using stable, reliable revenue sources they tried to have it all with low taxes. You can't have it both ways. Maths isn't magic (though, I would have disagreed with this view back in high school during my advanced algebra days...I didn't do too well and did rather think of it as being some sort of voodoo).

And Alberta has the highest per capita government expenditure among large provinces as well- with some caveats:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-bc-budgets-per-capita-comparison-1.3996276
http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/how-to-fix-albertas-10-billion-budget-hole/

AoD

 

[blixtex]

Now that Scarborough subway will get built for sure. No way Dougie allocates any of that money to anything else. He's going to make sure to preserve his brother's legacy on that.

 

[LMVDR]

It's a cherry-picking stat that no economist uses. Economist use total public sector/gdp when comparing countries, because that's the only way to account for the differences in how sub-national governments are setup.

Similarly, saying Ontario is the most indebted subnational entity really ignores several issues like the level of responsibility Canadian provinces and their revenue raising abilities (something a lot of other subnational entities don't come close to).

All that said, Ontario does have to get its fiscal house in order. And I think it's fair to ask what the Liberals have achieved for the incredible amount of debt taken on.

California State Debt $146.4 billion
population 39.8 million

Ontario Provincial Debt $240 billion US ($312 billion Canadian)
population 14.3 million

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/ontario-vs-california-whos-really-debt

"As a share of the economy, Ontario’s debt (38.6 per cent) is more than five times larger than California’s debt (7.7 per cent). Ontario’s per capita debt ($17,922) is over four-and-a-half times that of California ($3,833). Think about that – Ontarians are handing their children a debt load between four-and-a-half and five times that of Californians."

I support the PC Party because I want a government that will reduce the provincial debt, make government more efficient and hopefully lower taxes. McGuinty/Wynne/Liberals have proven utterly incompetent and incapable (disinterested) in any of those initiatives.

 

[LMVDR]

She isn't going to morph into being likeable in three months - she can morph into the ruthless in 3 days.

AoD

Make no mistake. Few political figures are more ruthless than her.

 

[rbt]

California State Debt $146.4 billion
population 39.8 million

Ontario Provincial Debt $240 billion US ($312 billion Canadian)
population 14.3 million

Now do revenue. Here's a hint, Alberta and Texas both have similar levels of revenue.

Ontario is the 4th largest government entity in North America (after US, Canada, Mexico) by revenue and has the 4th largest amount of debt. Quebec is 5th in both too IIRC.


Since division of responsibility changes from country to country, you need to consider the full stack of debt (municipal, regional, federal) as it applies to the rate payer. As a start, California's portion of the US federal debt is over $2 trillion USD, making their total debt around 2.2 trillion USD. Municipal is in addition to that but I don't know what amount.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Also - https://www.thestar.com/opinion/com...o_is_no_california_when_it_comes_to_debt.html

And here is an additional kicker - for all the talk about sovereign debt - guess what, Ontario is rated slightly higher than California by Moody and broadly comparable by other rating agencies.

Not something to gloat about, and it is something to be addressed, but unless you are promoting a party that will sock away a few B a year just for paying down the debt instead of vacating the tax room by giving out tax cuts (which is another expenditure) the whole debt terror rings hollow.

AoD

 

[zang]

Also - https://www.thestar.com/opinion/com...o_is_no_california_when_it_comes_to_debt.html

And here is an additional kicker - for all the talk about sovereign debt - guess what, Ontario is rated slightly higher than California by Moody and broadly comparable by other rating agencies.

Not something to gloat about, and it is something to be addressed, but unless you are promoting a party that will sock away a few B a year just for paying down the debt instead of vacating the tax room by giving out tax cuts (which is another expenditure) the whole debt terror rings hollow.

AoD

You forgot the mic drop.

 

[ADRM]

I support the PC Party because I want a government that will reduce the provincial debt, make government more efficient and hopefully lower taxes.

So what of the fact that the PC party platform planned to run deficits?

And what of the fact that Doug Ford has made pledges that would significantly add to those deficits and others that would erode substantial sources of revenue?

And what of the fact that Ford isn't capable of identifying a single, solitary program he'd target to "make government more efficient"?