Am I the only one who immediately thought of Mikey?
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Premier Doug Ford's Ontario
- Thread starter animatronic
- Start date
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Thinker
Active Member
Mikey has been hospitalized, he is a high risk patient with a pacemaker. Stephen Lecce tested negative but is staying in self isolation as he was in direct contact with (fill in name) If it was Mikey Ford.... starting to think Mikey might be looking to move to provincial politics next election. (crazy theory)
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Just for the record, because I'm not sure I made it clear in the posts on the topic of rentals that you and I were going on about: I always thought this call to refuse rent was ridiculous. It's a petty call by the usual noise-bandit wannabe commies who think everything belongs to everyone.
zang
Senior Member
Oh, eff off.
Few landlords have cooperated during all of this situation. The news is rife with landlords raising rents, failing to cooperate or find middle ground.
A friend runs a business and was told with no uncertain terms that his bar/food operation, mandated closed by the government, was expected to pay full rent during the entire closure. His landlord wouldn't even consider applying for the CECRA. The tenant applies on behalf of the landlord, but it isn't mandatory for the landlord to comply.
My (residential) building's landlord has raised rents on individuals during this time, even when "fair" market rental rates have actually dropped a few percent and several building amenities are completely unusable until Covid is tamed.
Yet, during all of this almost almost single group except landlords have been forced to make some kind of concession in income. I'll repeat that, except landlords.
The best option given to residential tenants is deferral and a finger wag at landlords from Premier-diminish-tenants-rights. Deferred rent still need to be paid, but as to when most people can afford to is completely up in the air. Everybody who works in the hospitality and retail industries (which are a substantial number) will have to deal with dramatically cut income for the long term. And the CERB will disappear soon enough. So how will they afford rent?
Even before Covid, the greed of landlords was already in full swing. "Investors" running mini-empires of AirBNB condos, renovictions on the rise and landlords taking advantage of faux-"low availability" by raising rents well past what the market will bear.
So don't downplay a rent strike as some kind of "commie" BS. These are people's lives, incomes and wellness we're talking about. But for the most part, landlords don't seem willing to accept (or care) about that.
So, if a rental strike is what shakes the dollar signs out of the eyes of the greedy, then strike away my friends, strike away.
TheKingEast
Senior Member
So what are you saying here, that tenants entire rent should be forgiven and they shouldn't have to pay it back? I'm not sure what you want residential landlords to do if they're not allowed to evict due to non-payment. The lease should be ripped up?
You seem to only think about your life but not anyone elses. The landlord's livelihood means nothing? What if the landlord loses their job? What if the landlord is retired and using the rental income to survive? What this situation has shown me is how callous and selfish some people are on both sides of the fence. Some renters really have a distorted view of reality. As for commercial landlords, the government created a silly plan and didn't think that putting the onus on the landlord to apply was just not going to work. So in some regards I see tenants taking advantage and on the flipside I see some cold landlords who are giving their tenants a hard time. That said, if a contract is signed, you can't be mad at someone for sticking to it.
The rent strike is garbage, sorry.
zang
Senior Member
Did I say leases should be ripped up, and all rent forgiven?
A strike would be withholding rent in order to force landlords to make some kind of temporary compromise. Otherwise it's not a strike, it's just not paying your rent, ever. And I don't think anyone has advocated that. But far be it from me to keep you from hyperbolic binary extremes.
The tenant's livelihood means nothing? So, if all their money goes to rent instead of food, that's okay with you? That's not a statement of compromise, that's, "Pay me or f-off"
What about the fact that things are not normal right now? Why do Landlords have the sole luxury of being the only people allowed to act like business as usual?
Frank Heisler
New Member
Just looking for a little clarity here, as I've been out of the rental market for a number of years. But, are you guys saying that landlords are going to the rent tribunals to evict and WINNING at this time?
Could you not submit a challenge to a residential rent increase and therefore freeze the rent at its current rate until the tribunal rules?
I was under the impression that the biggest issue was commercial landlords shutting down businesses.
Could you not submit a challenge to a residential rent increase and therefore freeze the rent at its current rate until the tribunal rules?
I was under the impression that the biggest issue was commercial landlords shutting down businesses.
TheKingEast
Senior Member
I'd respond but I already know where this will go and likely a timeout....so all I'll say is there are ways to work out issues. Going on STRIKE is an F-U to the landlord. This pandemic affects everyone, not just tenants and frankly if you feel you don' have to ever pay rent because you can't then you're saying the contract is useless and in Ontario, a lease is pretty much useless unless you're a tenant.
You talk about livelihood, you're being told that you don't have to pay rent and collecting CERB. What more do you want? By not paying rent you're screwing with a landlord's livelihood but your entitlement blinds you from that.
Nothing is normal so that doesn't mean it's a free for all and frankly that's what some tenants are doing. You need help, contact the government. You get months of free accommodation and it's still not good enough. At what point does the landlord stop supporting the tenant? A year? 2 years? Until the tenant is comfortable? Give me a break.
toonderly
Active Member
The recourse for the landlord is to accept the CECRA from the government. Why should the landlord reject that in order to put the burden on the tenant who is not allowed to open?
TheKingEast
Senior Member
CECRA is commercial. My post is referring to residential. That plan does not exist for residential landlords.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
zang
Senior Member
Many landlords are both residential and commercial landlords. Every high-rise with retail at the ground level, the 100+ year old retail all along Queen, Dundas, Spadina with a shop at ground level and apartments above, etc.. But I digress...
A rent strike is not about paying no rent, ever. I mentioned this and you glossed over it. It's about forcing a landlord who was previously unwilling to give to find *some kind of* compromise. Yes, a few may take advantage of a rent strike, but most people are good and honest and want to pay at least what they can afford of their rent.
In pretty much every case, the landlord charges the lessee for more than the mortgage cost. The lessee is then essentially paying for their mortgage. Sure, unpaid rent is then unpaid mortgage, but landlords can get mortgage deferral, but in the end still end up owning the asset (mostly paid for by the lessee). But even if lessee's rent were to be deferred, it still has to be paid back from a diminished income. It's credit issued by the landlord and nothing more. One party ends up with a long-term asset and one doesn't, even in a time of great economic hardship. If you see this as somehow equal situation, there's something inherently wrong with your worldview.
How does someone who's gone from a modest income to near nothing manage to pay both rend and food? Many still don't qualify for CERB. The CERB doesn't come anywhere close to what many were making in big cities, where they found a higher rent was easily affordable on their salary. Many business are still taking big losses even with CEWS (see: hospitality, salons, massage parlours, etc.), and so many employees aren't being brought back to work or are still being brought back at diminished hours as businesses with little current income cannot force an employee to work a full 40 hours if the government is only covering 75% of that.
We aren't having any problem paying rent, but our building is "generously" (their words) offering deferrals to residents on already high rents. So, so generous. I think of the working disabled in my building, already on low incomes. I think about the couple two floors down who just had a baby and whose husband now has no job. They have *more* credit to pay back at an absolutely terrible time to have to do so. No temporary reduction in rent offered, just credit. When the time comes to renegotiate their leases, they'd have a standing to actually ask for a reduction based on market price, but also now have a couple of months of back rent to pay.
So explain to me again, why should anyone feel sorry about landlords right now?
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tiffer24
Senior Member
BREAKING: Premier Doug Ford says restaurants and services in Durham, York, Niagara, Halton, Hamilton, Sarnia, and Haldimand-Norfolk can reopen this Friday. Toronto, Peel and Windsor have to wait.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The south side of Steeles Avenue is in the City of Toronto. The north side of Steeles Aveneu is the Region of York.
(Papers, please...)