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Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

Yeah, sure, that's fine and all, but if the bureaucracy make decisions and they come to light then there's some lag time between that and when he could possibly do something about it.

I'm no fan, but let's not exaggerate the man's evil, or whatever.
 
SunriseChampion said:
Yeah, sure, that's fine and all, but if the bureaucracy make decisions and they come to light then there's some lag time between that and when he could possibly do something about it.

I'm no fan, but let's not exaggerate the man's evil, or whatever.
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The guy has been doing terrible things from day one. He gets a free pass because there’s a public health emergency he’s handling on a mediocre basis?
 
zang said:
The guy has been doing terrible things from day one. He gets a free pass because there’s a public health emergency he’s handling on a mediocre basis?
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I am not sure in downtown Toronto but he has become super popular in the suburbs again...

The issue is the other leaders of other parties are nonexistent and Fords simplistic rhetoric connects to people

Not saying he deserves it but if people were expected him to not get a 2nd term, the chances of that have gone down a lot lately.
 
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zang said:
The guy has been doing terrible things from day one. He gets a free pass because there’s a public health emergency he’s handling on a mediocre basis?
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Day one of what? Day one of his mandate - absolutely; day one of the emergency, I'm not sure. Around the world, this pandemic has evolved in a way that no one, not even the medical community, anticipated, so basically 'making it up as we go along', albeit with public health expertise. There has been over-cautiousness in some areas and under-performance in others, particularly LTC facilities (although on that note, I believe numerically, most have managed to avoid/control it, but where it has hit it has been a wildfire). I'm not sure anyone could point to a jurisdiction whose response has been any better than "mediocre".
 
I would say both the federal and provincial govt have done a good job.

Wished federal govt shut down the borders a week earlier and put way more restrictions on people coming back to Canada.
 
Our local stats show that only 17% of confirmed cases were travel related, which reflects the national average percentage of 20%. It was here before we knew it was a thing. Also, many of that 20% were returning Canadians coming home after the travel bans, so really, how effective were they?
 
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PinkLucy said:
Our local stats show that only 17% of confirmed cases were travel related, which reflects the national average percentage of 20%. It was here before we knew it was a thing. Also, many of that 20% were returning Canadians coming home after the travel bans, so really, how effective were they?
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You are cherry-picking stats.... almost all of the cases at the start were travel related. Of course, over time it turns into community spread. Less infected people you have coming....more people actually following self isolation would reduce community spread... Of course, it is secondary compared to social distancing but it does help.


Also if Travel Bans dont work why dont you go open the US border then?

I thought so

LOL


Like everyone i know saying "travel bans dont work" where then foaming at their mouths to shut down the US border a week later in March.

Like I am sick of this debate around "travel bans dont work".... They are just a secondary tool to help to flatten the curve not about not having no cases.
 
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Given that new information is showing that it was in North America much earlier than thought, to be effective a travel ban would have had to be in place by New Year's. Once it was in the country, the focus needed to be on community spread, and that lagged because of course no one wanted to shut everything down. We've been playing catch up since the beginning.

As for the US, it's such a mess right now that I would expect to see travel restored first with Europe, but given political realities, that isn't likely to happen. The US closed travel to China earlier than we did, and look how that worked out for them. Of course, data is showing that travel from Europe was more likely responsible than travel from China.
 
I ask again would you open the US border right now?

Look I agree that social distancing stops spread but many say the reason Quebec got so badly hit is due to early March break while BC is not too bad as theirs was later.

So my point is travel bans dont stop a virus but having less travel reduces its spread.

Like I dont know why we get so caught up in this debate, its one of the tools to stop a virus, not the only tolo and frankly having 1-2 weeks of people not entering the country or being in mandatory isolation would have helped.
 
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My point, as you like to say, is that they didn't work to stop the spread into Canada. Once the virus arrived, then yes, travel needs to be restricted, including domestic travel, which we didn't do. Some provinces took it upon themselves to do so, however.

And the goal was never to keep the virus out of the country. Given our global world, that's impossible. Even with a so-called travel ban, there is still travel across the border. Once the first case was in the country, it became an issue of community spread. The goal was, and continues to be, to control the impact on our medical system, in particular our ICUs.

So no, I wouldn't have a free for all on travel just yet. People are supposed to stay home. If they do that, a border closing isn't actually necessary. But truckers cross the border every day as it is, travelling to places with high rates of infection so the virus can happily continue to travel from the US to Canada and vice versa.

Short version: no border closing but significant travel restrictions. I'd also do the whole retail thing differently.
 
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Jasmine18 said:
I am not sure in downtown Toronto but he has become super popular in the suburbs again...

The issue is the other leaders of other parties are nonexistent and Fords simplistic rhetoric connects to people

Not saying he deserves it but if people were expected him to not get a 2nd term, the chances of that have gone down a lot lately.
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Opportunistic points-scoring seems to have little to do with his policies. He's still an ass who'll throw "the little guy" under the bus at almost any opportunity, regardless of how popular he may currently be. Wait a few months after a few more small businesses have folded; after more deaths happen that wouldn't have happened prior to his cuts, etc. In the first few moments of stress, people rally around their leaders—Trump notwithstanding as he's so incredibly terrible he's made himself an outlier. Given time, they lose faith.

Herbert Hoover was extremely popular before and during the start of the great depression. He carried 40 of 48 states at election. He narrowly carried 6 by the time the next election rolled around.
 
zang said:
The guy has been doing terrible things from day one. He gets a free pass because there’s a public health emergency he’s handling on a mediocre basis?
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Who said anything about a free pass? I simply said that I'm not sure it's his doing and that automatically blaming the lump for everything is poor form, which it is.

But, yeah, I suppose you folks who are butt hurt about the dude being premier will go on like end times til the day he dies or whatever.
 
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