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Politics: Tim Hudak's Plan for Ontario if he becomes Premier

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And the corruption that Wynne is a part of is ok?
Where has there ever been any evidence that Wynne is corrupt? Has she ever taken money? Has anyone ever suggested she took money? The biggest charge was that she knew the gas plants would be cancelled. That's hardly corruption.

What does the Ford situation have anything to do with this post and what Hudak will do and why are people still going on about Ford for goodness sake
Because it's clear evidence just how far Hudak will go to get votes. Even at this stage he won't risk alienating those who support Ford, because he knows that he has their vote ... so won't dare point out that they are immoral racists.
 
Where has there ever been any evidence that Wynne is corrupt? Has she ever taken money? Has anyone ever suggested she took money? The biggest charge was that she knew the gas plants would be cancelled. That's hardly corruption.

That's hardly ethical and total incompetence. She could have stood up and said no but she didn't. Wasn't she the one who said that cancelling the gas plant was a political decision like it was no big deal? She's only sorry because it may cost her a majority or she might be leader of the opposition. She'd do it again if she had too.
 
Kind of like how Hudak flip-flopped and said he will cancel, and then build the Ottawa Phase II LRT in a pre-election pandering? And coming from a party whose stance is basically the same re: gas plants? Ethics?

AoD
 
Kind of like how Hudak flip-flopped and said he will cancel, and then build the Ottawa Phase II LRT in a pre-election pandering? And coming from a party whose stance is basically the same re: gas plants? Ethics?

AoD

Orange and pumpkins. Ottawa Phase II has not been funded yet if I recall... meaning if he's saying he won't fund it, it won't cost us 1 billions in cancellation fees, right? Keep defending incompetence by rationalizing how the Conservative would be doing the same by not funding and unfunded project... It's great entertainment ;)

BTW I support Ottawa Phase II ;)
 
Except that funding the project is a fiscal commitment - just like cancelling the gas plant is one. At issue isn't whether it will cost us in cancellation fees - but whether it will cost beyond the fiscal framework he has put forward. You can't argue that you aren't susceptible to electoral pressures when you add and subtract expenditures on a whim - oh gawd - for ridings that is suffering from their policy choices and are at risk of going to the other parties.

AoD
 
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What Liberal supporters like to leave out of the equation is that the auditor general pointed out that a huge part of the $1.1B price tag resulted from the way the plants were cancelled and, for example, if we had just waited for Oakville to refuse building permits there would have been no cost in Oakville (obtaining the permits were the responsibility of the proponents).....but waiting did not fit the "political decision" the Liberals were making. To save the seats they needed to proactively cancel the plants prior to the election.
 
Cross-posted from the thread in the Politics subforum- A Hudak government is definitely possible.

OntarioNewsWatch.com‏@OntNewsWatch said:
Ontario voter turnout down 6% in advance polls; Multiple stops today for party leaders as Ontario election draws near;

David Akin @davidakin said:
Riding of Simcoe-Grey (#PCPO incumbent) top advance voter turnout with 9,009. Kingston & Islands (#OLP incumbent) #2 with 8,565 adv votes;

David Akin @davidakin said:
3 ridings with lowest advance turnout all #OLP territory: York West - 1,691 | Etobicoke North - 2,029 | York South-Weston - 2,143

Warren Kinsella said:
Why does Warren think Tim Hudak is going to win?
- The Conservative vote base is smaller but way, way more motivated.
- 75 per cent of the province want change.
- Wynne's campaign has been "mad as hell" bizarro, and Horwath's under-funded.
- HARPER'S MACHINE IS HELPING THE PC GOTV EFFORT FOR FIRST TIME IN A DECADE.
http://warrenkinsella.com/2014/06/h...en-thinks-tim-hudak-is-going-to-win/#comments

So prepare yourselves for the dismantling of the TTC and another decade without any improvements in transit.
 
Except that funding the project is a fiscal commitment - just like cancelling the gas plant is one. At issue isn't whether it will cost us in cancellation fees - but whether it will cost beyond the fiscal framework he has put forward. You can't argue that you aren't susceptible to electoral pressures when you add and subtract expenditures on a whim - oh gawd - for ridings that is suffering from their policy choices.

AoD

The gas plants cancellation was an utter disaster and a despicable mismanagement of public funds. People could somewhat forgive incompetence but it was done for political reasons, which should be criminalized...and they tried to bury what they've done...breaking the law...and the investigation is ongoing... That billions would have built Finch West LRT, the line that was defer by that same government because they woke up to their financial situation. Wasn't Wynne the transport minister who deferred part of Transit City? Wasn't Wynne a member of the cabinet who signed the gas cancellation documents??? I can't vote for that and it has nothing to do with ideology since nothing will make me vote Harper in 2015.

If Wynne had quit the cabinet because of the gas plants cancellation plan and had a concrete plan to cut the debt and eliminate the deficit, I would have voted for her.

Ottawa LRT Phase I is supposed to open in 2018, the year where the deficit should be erased. What's wrong with committing to Phase II after it opens in 2018? Look, I'm passionate about public transit just like everyone else on this forum, but I'm amazed how people take this province financial situation so lightly. We're on the verge of becoming the next Quebec. I've lived in that province when they were at their worst and I can see where this is heading if the debt and deficit are not put under control. The new Quebec Liberals are seeing the light and have introduced an semi-austerity budget due to the PQ pushing the province nearly over the edge.

The old Quebec (the pseudo-Europeen province) who love the environment, public transit etc...social programs didn't build any new public transit infrastructure since Laval Metro opened in 2007. Why? Because they were broke. Deficits after deficits along with a sky-rocketing debt. Many transit plans were announced such as:
-Montreal Blue Line
-New commuter train line (West Island and East suburbs)
-Montreal LRT network
-Quebec City Streetcars
-Looping the Orange Line
-Extending the Yellow Line
-Airport Train to downtown
-LRT on Champlain Bridge.

Guess what...Noting was done except for the Commuter train to the east (aka The Sorbora scheme). Everything was deferred.

When Quebec was (still is) shackled in deficits and a growing debt combined with an unwillingness to cut unnecessary social programs, nothing got build. Taxes increased, government fees increased, electricity rates got higher, tolls were reintroduced, businesses left, jobs were lost. When it was time to build public transit, they were always deferred except for the Laval extension on the Orange line and AMT Trains extensions. Sure, you could build transit regardless and increase the debt but when Credit agencies are threatening to lower the province credit rating, Governments ALWAYS LISTENS regardless of ideology....well, except McGuinty:http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/04/26/moodys-downgrades-ontario_n_1457075.html A lower credit rating means an increase of the interest rates on the debt which adds a heavier burden on the province's finances. Businesses knows that "Today's debt is tomorrow's taxes" and that's why they leave and won't invest in a province crumbling under debts.

The PQ took the Wynne approach, cut nothing, invest billions (increasing the debt) and hope for the best. The PQ wanted to electrify public transit...all of it :rolleyes: Credit agencies came knocking at the door and they were ready to lower the province credit rating and the PQ reacted by deferring all the transit plans to preserve their social programs. Taxes increased, businesses left, jobs were lost, Montreal was at a standstill and for the first time since the referendum, there was an exodus of Quebecers to other provinces.

Where am I going with this...Wynne and Horwath have no plans to cut the debt and eliminate the deficit. When those credit agencies comes knocking at our doors and they have : http://www.torontosun.com/2014/05/27/ontarios-debt-puts-credit-rating-in-peril, they will do the same. They won't cancel anything, but they'll defer some of the transit just like they did with Transit City. No matter how impopular her Transit tax was, it was the only alternative to keep building transit due to her unwillingness to seriously tackle the debt and deficit. Now that the taxes are off the table, I don't buy her transit plans either. Just like Transit City, the Big Move will be amended again and some of the project will be deferred.

If anything, Hudak is "telling the truth". You have to control the debt and deficit before spending money you don't have. Everyone agrees with that. The disagreement is how do you cut. Instead of promising transit to then defer it once elected like the Liberals did, he's just saying not until the deficit is gone, which is the responsible thing to do. No deficit and a shrinking debt means more available cashflow to invest into infrastructure. Even the spending junky PQ understood that.

True, I have no guarantee that Hudak will build anything besides Eglinton Crosstown, but you don't have any guarantees that Wynne or Horwath wont defer anything either. Just as Hudak 1 millions jobs promise is unrealistic, Wynne and Horwath's plan to cut the deficit by spending more is pure insanity. It never worked in Quebec and it won't work here.
 
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This is getting maddening.

I hope that those of you on here who vote for Hudak are ready for a massive regression in transit. Right when we're THIS CLOSE to getting work on the DRL, GO RER, etc. started, people throw their hands up in a cry of "CORRUPT LIBERALS" and throw away our progress.
 
This is getting maddening.

I hope that those of you on here who vote for Hudak are ready for a massive regression in transit. Right when we're THIS CLOSE to getting work on the DRL, GO RER, etc. started, people throw their hands up in a cry of "CORRUPT LIBERALS" and throw away our progress.
We'll see on thursday. A lot of people are not aware of these projects and the their risk.
 
This is getting maddening.

I hope that those of you on here who vote for Hudak are ready for a massive regression in transit. Right when we're THIS CLOSE to getting work on the DRL, GO RER, etc. started, people throw their hands up in a cry of "CORRUPT LIBERALS" and throw away our progress.

Since the Transit taxes went out the windows, you don't have any guarantees that the Liberals won't defer transit plans either, just like they did on Transit City before.
 
Since the Transit taxes went out the windows, you don't have any guarantees that the Liberals won't defer transit plans either, just like they did on Transit City before.

We don't have a guarantee but we sure as hell have a guarantee that Harris 2.0 will defer and scrap and cut transit to ribbons. At least the Liberals will work towards building something at some point. At least they created Metrolinx and pushed implementing a smart card, for example.

They're not perfect, but on the transit file the Liberals are the only chance this province has.
 
We don't have a guarantee but we sure as hell have a guarantee that Harris 2.0 will defer and scrap and cut transit to ribbons. At least the Liberals will work towards building something at some point. At least they created Metrolinx and pushed implementing a smart card, for example.

They're not perfect, but on the transit file the Liberals are the only chance this province has.

You don't know either. Period. You're making assumptions
 
[...]
If anything, Hudak is "telling the truth". You have to control the debt and deficit before spending money you don't have. Everyone agrees with that. The disagreement is how do you cut. Instead of promising transit to then defer it once elected like the Liberals did, he's just saying not until the deficit is gone, which is the responsible thing to do. No deficit and a shrinking debt means more available cashflow to invest into infrastructure. Even the spending junky PQ understood that.

True, I have no guarantee that Hudak will build anything besides Eglinton Crosstown, but you don't have any guarantees that Wynne or Horwath wont defer anything either. Just as Hudak 1 millions jobs promise is unrealistic, Wynne and Horwath's plan to cut the deficit by spending more is pure insanity. It never worked in Quebec and it won't work here.

The problem I find with Hudak is that he's not simply deferring transit for later- he's actively cutting transit- he's cancelling lines, uploading the most profitable elements of the TTC, and handwaving crucial elements of transit expansion with the "After the deficit is eliminated" excuse. I have doubts that you really support transit if you're still supporting this guy.

“Finch, Sheppard, Mississauga, Brampton, Hamilton,†Hudak said when asked which LRTs he would kill so money could be earmarked for subways and other congestion-fighting measures.
“Instead of ripping up the roads and making your traffic worse, we’ll build on the real strengths of the system,†he told reporters at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre, against the backdrop of GO Trains at Union Station.
“That’s why we’ll do more frequent GO service and we’ll expand our highway capacity as well: the 400, the 410, the 403.â€
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario...ts_for_ttc_mississauga_brampton_hamilton.html

The remainder of the issue is that Hudak's Conservatives are heavily influenced by the Harper Conservatives, meaning an emphasis on ideology over facts. I.e. Hudak's Million Jobs Plan, and his insisting that "He knows he's right", wedge politics and a hard-right shift. I would not hesitate to guess that more of that will come this way.

A Hudak government might be fine for Ontario, but it would be terrible for Toronto.
 
I hope that those of you on here who vote for Hudak are ready for a massive regression in transit. Right when we're THIS CLOSE to getting work on the DRL, GO RER, etc. started, people throw their hands up in a cry of "CORRUPT LIBERALS" and throw away our progress.

I didn't vote for the PCs, but the point of view isn't exactly unreasonable. If you accept the premise that the Liberals are somewhere between venal and corrupt, you'd have good reason to be skeptical any of that would happen in the first place.

We're not, in fact, very close at all to seeing those policies implemented. They're campaign promises, intended to secure a Liberal win. Some are good and some are bad but they're not written in stone.

Frankly, I think people on this forum overstate the salience of transit as an election issue for Ontarian's. It's natural given this forum and sub-forum's topic, but still not representative of the wider population, and it's a bit silly to criticize someone for prioritizing another concern over transit.

Looking at Vote Compass, the main priorities were: #1 jobs, taxes and 'the economy," #2 healthcare, #3 Accountability, #4 education, #5 energy and #6 Transit/infrastructure.
 
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