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PM Justin Trudeau's Canada

lenaitch

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It's hard to sift through the media but hasn't the SCC already heard the Sask. appeal and we are awaiting ruling? I don't know where the Ontario appeal stands (I tried to navigate the SCC website but got frustrated). With at least one case under terminal appeal, I'm a little surprised the Alta. SC even ruled on what would substantially be the same argument, but I'm not a legal scholar.
 

Jasmine18

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It's hard to sift through the media but hasn't the SCC already heard the Sask. appeal and we are awaiting ruling? I don't know where the Ontario appeal stands (I tried to navigate the SCC website but got frustrated). With at least one case under terminal appeal, I'm a little surprised the Alta. SC even ruled on what would substantially be the same argument, but I'm not a legal scholar.

Judges are not a hivemind...


I remember for the Toronto City Council size case one judge overstepped his legal authority and was legislating from the bench and then the appeal judge said "province can do what it want even if it is not fair"
 

jje1000

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I think if anyone is decently media-savvy, the philosophical 'angle' of the various platforms should come as no surprise. CBC tends to be left-leaning, the Sun called for air-strikes two weeks ago.

I watched a bit this morning before heading out. With the need for 24-hour news channels to keep talking, an on-scene reported kept referring to police who had "bullet-proof vests, guns and handcuffs". Oh my! So did the cop that stopped you for speeding.
I would say that that becomes problematic- as Canada’s representative broadcaster, the CBC should be absolutely anti-narrative, impartial and harshly factual where privately-held media may not be (i.e. the Sun and the Star). It's troubling when APTN has more accurately covered the Wet'suwet'en issue than the national broadcaster has.

Of course, to nobody's surprise, the mostly-white professional protesters (just take a look at the Facebook pages and see the ones crowing about their participation) seem to have taken their word about GO. Excellent timing, as they should probably be causing problems this entire week and driving more people away from the Wet'suwet'en cause. The tragedy out of this is that it erodes the average Canadian's support for reconciliation- which lines up perfectly with the protesters' goals- a perpetual cause where they are forever the brave underdogs fighting against some vague unjust force.

Edit: I love how these people are completely unaware that they're in their own ideological echo-chamber- does this woman know how unethical this looks?
Sonia Hill, who identifies as Mohawk from Six Nations of Grand River, sang medicine songs Monday night and supported demonstrators at a separate demonstration in Caledonia before voluntarily leaving.

The 24-year-old, who is a teaching assistant in sociology at McMaster University, said Six Nations will defend their land indefinitely and she will support them, despite fears of being arrested.

"I'm coming back tomorrow... I'm going to bring my students, make it a part of their credit, their attendance [to] check in with me at the blockade." Hill and others were protesting Monday night on hwy. 6 in Caledonia.
 
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jje1000

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Interesting post from Reddit regarding protester tactics:

Exc5llent_Mycologist said:
The biggest strawman in this while debate is when people say something like "Protests are meant to be disruptive" as some kind of catch-all dismissal of people's frustrations with having their commute blocked for hours, etc. Yes, protests are often meant to be disruptive so as to draw attention to their cause, but that doesn't mean any and all disruption is an effective tool.

This sort of flippant, meme-like repetition of this strawman from some supporters only further emphasizes the gulf between them and the increasing majority of the Canadian public who are actually finding themselves opposed to the protesters. If you can't generate public support and target your actions in a smart, thoughtful way that doesn't alienate half the population, then you're not doing it right.

And all the people claiming that anyone expressing this opinion 'wouldn't have supported the civil rights marches' etc are only further emphasizing this tone deaf perspective. Yes, civil rights marches in the US were divisive, but they also mainly targeted communities and business that engaged in segregation, they didn't go into random communities and shut down commuter trains to protest something happening three states away because that would have been counter to the entire point of gaining public support.

What the protesters DO want, and what they aren't getting, is images of arrests, so they keep upping the ante in their protest actions to try and force the RCMP's hand, but it's backfiring because they're ignoring most Canadians now are calling for RCMP action. (61% based on a recent ipsos poll)
Exc5llent_Mycologist said:
Right, in SELMA, a segregationist community. they didn't go block commuter trains in rural Massachusetts to protest Selma.
Honestly, it's like you don't know anything about the US civil rights protests at all beyond a very superficial idea that they 'disrupted stuff'. Dr King was actually VERY specific about the kinds of protests he found effective. His whole non violence agenda was in direct response to many in his own community who believed the only 'real' action was to meet violence with violence. King made a conscious decision to take a different approach in practice because he understood tactics. you should spend some time and read more about the Civil rights protests before you go invoking them and Dr King.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/comments/f9a7ia
 
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lenaitch

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I would say that that becomes problematic- as Canada’s representative broadcaster, the CBC should be absolutely anti-narrative, impartial and harshly factual where privately-held media may not be (i.e. the Sun and the Star). It's troubling when APTN has more accurately covered the Wet'suwet'en issue than the national broadcaster has.
Perhaps in an ideal (idealer? more ideal?) world, since the CBC is funded by both public and advertising dollars. The truth is that all 'traditional' media platforms are suffering from both reduced advertising income and competition from social media and 'citizen journalism' and, as a result, research departments and the luxury of actually doing in-depth research has suffered. It is apparently more important to pay for a crew to stand in a farmer's field all day than have them in a library or talking to subject matter experts because that's what the competition is doing. As well, the consumer is increasingly expecting their news, if they are interested at all, in short sound bites and Twitter-length clips.

I'm not surprised the APTN has had more depth to their coverage. Assuming the majority of their staff is First Nations, they are likely inherently closer to the history and underlying issues, and likely have better and freer access to many in the FN community. Make no mistake, APTN reporting is not immune from bias. They are human and have their 'clientele'.
 

Jasmine18

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I heard that Trudau and others were supportive of the protestors but they say the new Polling from Nick Nanos and were like "these Blockades must end!"
 

BurlOak

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100% These blockades are losing support quickly.
As long as the protests were only costing farmers and resource workers their jobs, their livelihoods (and in some cases, their lives due to suicide), then it was not a big deal.
But if it means someone in the Laurentian area being an hour late going home from work - then it will be reported as serious and the public mood will turn.
 

jje1000

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Interesting note asserting that the basis of the 'hereditary' chief's claim of legitimacy is not as clear-cut as portrayed in the media. Layer on top of that Wet'suwet'en internal politics, far-left hijacking of discourse, and US pipeline interests- and you've got a fine mess!

Everybody on social media is citing the Delgamuukw decision and saying it gives the five dissenting hereditary chiefs the right to order the RCMP and Coastal GasLink off the territory and stop the pipeline. It doesn't.

Delgamuukw acknowledged Wet'suwet'en title. It didn't say title to what: the boundaries of Wet'suwet'en land are still under negotiation. Four different Native peoples have land claims in the same area and there are and even greater number of Caucasians. What's claimed as Wet'suwet'en territory may not be what they get in the end.

The hereditary chiefs did not win sovereignty or jurisdiction or right to self-government or however you want to put it, in that decision. Delgamuukw clearly says Canadian federal and provincial laws apply to everyone, including the Natives on their own territories and reserves. Delgamuukw did not grant hereditary chiefs any governing authority. But who's going to sit down and read the decision? Isn't it easier for someone to just tell you what's in it? The pipeline protesters are counting on that.

It's the environmental activists that are spreading the lies that the 5 dissenting hereditary chiefs have final authority over this project, and the authority to order the RCMP and Coastal GasLink off the land. You have this anti-pipeline movement messing with the indigenous sovereignty movement. The general public is pretty ignorant around indigenous issues so you can tell them anything and they'll buy it. Lots of Caucasians sending their dollars now. "We support the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs!"

In Tyendinaga the Mohawks are hardcore sovereignists. Once again many natives harbour the idea that Section 35 of the Constitution, Delgamuukw, and UNDRIP put together makes indigenous communities sovereign nations that do not have to respect any level of Canadian law from band council to federal government. That's very dangerous misinformation. They've gone ahead and shut down the rail lines for three weeks because they believe that they are immune to punishment under the law. People are being misled, and I bet a lot of them wouldn't cause any trouble if the truth about the law was explained to them.
 

jje1000

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As long as the protests were only costing farmers and resource workers their jobs, their livelihoods (and in some cases, their lives due to suicide), then it was not a big deal.
But if it means someone in the Laurentian area being an hour late going home from work - then it will be reported as serious and the public mood will turn.
Trudeau's flip-flopping all over the place- at the beginning, he said that he would not dictate police operations, but now the Transport Minister's pushing provincial police to dismantle new blockades? The horse is already out of the barn.

On an aside, a huge element that few talk about is how many of these resource projects are staffed by FN communities. The Fort Mcmurray FN community for instance, is the one of the wealthiest FN communities in Canada, and is wealthier than many parts of Alberta. It's not simply an cut-and-dried Avatar-esque tale of evil-corporations-vs-the-brave-natives that some see this as.
It's one of those things that perhaps speaks to a greater conflict in the way FN narrative is viewed- a static Elysian and revanchist 'noble-natives-in-harmony-with-turtle-island' image that many (white) activists seem to cling onto, which is not tremendously different from destructive yet similarly colonial assumptions that saw FN communities' agricultural equipment taken away in the 19th century as part of the reserve system (but that's also part of a larger system of marginalization that must not be ignored).

Anyways, in other news, activists keep on making things more and more dangerous. There are of course, also videos of protesters throwing items under moving trains, and trying to set up bonfires while trains are passing.


 
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Jasmine18

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Considering how badly Trudeau handled the native blockades I am very concerned if he has the leadership skills to deal with a pandemic.
 

WislaHD

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Considering how badly Trudeau handled the native blockades I am very concerned if he has the leadership skills to deal with a pandemic.
The response to the pandemic will come from the provincial level, it is their jurisdiction.
 

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