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Plans to fill in Allen Road

vz64

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Just get rid of it!

- Finally close CFB Downsview
- Align Dufferin north of the 401 with Dufferin to the south
- Add a 401 east to Bathurst St exit
- Cover the Spadina subway in the Allen ditch
- Bring the ditch up to grade
- Build hi-rises at the Subway stations and parks in-between
- The money from the real-estate would likely pay for it all
CFB Downsview was closed back in 1996. In order to Align Dufferin parts you need to shut down Downsview Airport, which is owned and used by Bombardier Aerospace. I doubt it will happen any time soon. I do like other parts of your proposal.
 

nfitz

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- Align Dufferin north of the 401 with Dufferin to the south
- Add a 401 east to Bathurst St exit
Interesting, I'd never realised that Bathurst doesn't connect ... but I don't drive around that area much ... and when I heading north, where the Allan does flow into Dufferin fairly well.

Both projects seem reasonable ... while increasing capacity of the road work seems a poor idea; trying to deal with a few bottlenecks make sense. I know some would be horrified, but if the Allan is kept, then tunelling a couple of lanes along the subway line, down to Bathurst, to stop the jogging left and right on Eglinton seems to make sense to me.

Though perhaps just elimiinating the Allen completely? If we connect the Dufferin's (perhaps simply using the extra land north of the 401, along Billy Bishop Way; improve the 401/Bathurst interchange, and put an interchange on the 401 for Yorkdale ... then perhaps we simply eliminate the entire roadway?
 

Asterix

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I know some would be horrified, but if the Allan is kept, then tunelling a couple of lanes along the subway line, down to Bathurst, to stop the jogging left and right on Eglinton seems to make sense to me.
How would this work?

Things to account for:
- LRT tunnel coming along Eglinton;
- at Bathurst, the subway is buried under the Cedarvale ravine which is a good 15m or more below the Bathurst St bridge. You aren't about to rise up out of a tunnel at that point to intersect with Bathurst without completely trashing the ravine and tick off the reasonably well-heeled neighbourhood.
 

nfitz

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- at Bathurst, the subway is buried under the Cedarvale ravine which is a good 15m or more below the Bathurst St bridge. You aren't about to rise up out of a tunnel at that point to intersect with Bathurst without completely trashing the ravine and tick off the reasonably well-heeled neighbourhood.
Yeah, this would be the weak point. Perhaps one could simply tunnel and come up under Bathurst already heading south ... but it would require a proper study to look at feasibility.

As for Eglinton LRT ... it will run above the subway, so if the roadway simply followed the subway line, and dropped a bit deeper, it shouldn't have a problem getting underneath the LRT. Though I wouldn't be suprised if you'd have to demo a few houses in that area ...

Perhaps the best solution, is completely eliminating the Allen south of the 401, and merging it with Dufferin to the north.
 

sixrings

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the allen should be eliminated... if there was condo development and a walkable neighbourhood like whats arrising between younge and sheppard all the way to sheppard and don mills I would consider it a vast improvement.. Or how about CITY PLACE 2 located where the allen is now.... The best suburban condo development that I think would suite the area would be from Sheppard and Bayview... A mix of low rise mid rise and high rise...

Can we get a movie theatre a grocery store and a chapters while at it... this area of Eglinton could be a great retail section again... All the queen street stores which are getting priced out can relocate here PLEASE and THANK YOU1
 

adma

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Keep in mind that any Bathurst/401 "upgrade" would also likely involve a bit of neighbourhood trashing; and Bathurst itself is already a bottleneck during rush, I don't know how it'd fare as a default for Allen Rd traffic...
 

Neil

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I estimate adding a 401 east exit to Bathurst would require expropriating 2 or 3 buildings. View the loss. All the main streets in this area are busy during rush hour. That's what its all about. Its better to meter the input though instead of the fire-hose that Allen serves as. Think how much better Eglington would work.

vz64: I know CFB Downsview is no more but they did a bad job of closing it down because they managed to leave an airport there. Bombardier should be squeezed out and inspired to relocate. Bombardier builds aircraft there. I'm not a fan of flying untested aircraft on their maiden flights over a populated area. I'd rather have Parc Downsview but if an underused airport is preferred we could still straighten out Dufferin St. and put it under the southern end of the runway.
 
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picard102

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Can we get a movie theatre a grocery store and a chapters while at it.
A whole mall at Yorkdale not close enough for you?

I estimate adding a 401 east exit to Bathurst would require expropriating 2 or 3 buildings.
A few more then that I would think. Probably a couple on Carharrt as well. Would be nice though, rather then having to go all the way to Avenue if you miss the Duffrein or Allen turn off.

we could still straighten out Dufferin St. and put it under the southern end of the runway.
Dufferin North and South are a mess. I'd hate to see what would happen if they were connected.
 

sixrings

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A whole mall at Yorkdale not close enough for you?.
Well personally I think what the world is trying to create is sustainable walking environments. So in my opinion yorkdale would not be close enough... Plus younge and eglinton has all these ammenities as well does Sheppard and younge... They both serve two different people... Or how about younge and sheppard and then sheppard and bayview.... Both intersections have all three services... A couple more stops away from bayview and sheppard is don mills and sheppard which again retains all three services....

PLUS I imagine if the ALLEN is redeveloped into mixed use condos houses businesses there will be too many pedestrians to simply fit inside of Yorkdale. Yorkdale is insanely busy as it is. Could any one here concieve how busy it would be if it had STC development arround it... Or SQ1 development.. It would simply be overcrowded... Sure there is a possability of a mall extension but Id prefer some shopping on Eglinton instead.. It already has a good retail base. We should be encouraging and developing this. Not trying to get everyone to simply go to "THE MALL"... Recently I went to NYC and that was probably one of my favourite parts of my visit. It didnt matter if you were inmanhatten or queens there was outdoor shopping everywhere. And name brand outdoor shopping in the suburbs.. This is ahuge improvement vs our no name convenience stores that cant afford to make it in a mall... This might not work everywhere but surely it could work on EGLINTON.
 

Chuck

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I'd be curious to see how the removal of the Allen would impact traffic. The traffic at both ends is probably mostly made up of cars not from the neighbourhood being drawn there by the Allen, and dumped onto local roads due to the highway randomly ending. The opposing argument is that all parallel roads are already at capacity, can't handle any additional capacity, and there's nowhere for the cars to go otherwise.
 

picard102

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I'd be curious to see how the removal of the Allen would impact traffic. The traffic at both ends is probably mostly made up of cars not from the neighbourhood being drawn there by the Allen, and dumped onto local roads due to the highway randomly ending. The opposing argument is that all parallel roads are already at capacity, can't handle any additional capacity, and there's nowhere for the cars to go otherwise.
There aren't that many exits though. I think most traffic is around the Eglinton and Dufferin Noth end of things. Don't notice much comming off at Wilson Heights, or Yorkdale.
 

dunkalunk

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I'd expect traffic on Black Creek Drive to increase significantly, perhaps even enough to warrant grade separation, even though its doubtable that Weston Road could handle the additional load. I personally can't see any decommission and filling in of the Allen happening until the Bolton GO, Midtown GO and Eglinton (practically a subway) LRT are up and running.
 

sixrings

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Disagree. I dont think much additional traffic will go onto BLACK CREEK. The main use for the ALLEN is people trying to get downtown Via ALLEN/Bathurst ALLEN/Spadina or ALLEN/AVENUE ROAD... If the person was coming from far enough west that they could take black creek they almost surely could take the 427... Plus if theres no left hand turn lane onto Eglinton from Black creek but Michagan U's then theres even less chance ppl would try this route. It just would take to long and not make any sense..
 

jwill

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The original plans for the Spadina exprewwsay show a partial interchange at Bathurst (basically northbound to northbound, and southbound to southbound). The earliest plans also a subway station there. It was planned to run at grade, along with the subway and the width of the whole thing occupies almost the entire valley. It would be tough to fit this in underground today. It would have to be below the subway to either side to avoid going through Eglinton West station.

Also interesting to note is the 4 level tunnel planned around Casa Loma, with subway, expressway, Spadina Rd., and ramps to Davenport on the 4 levels.
 

sixrings

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This will NEVER happen. If the areas residents were able to stop the highway from going downtown before then surely now that there houses are 1mill-2mil each there is no way they are going to give it up. Also they shouldnt be asked too. We dont need more highways and more sprawl.. I think most of us have come to the conclusion that this is poor planning. We shouldnt aspire to be like LA in a traffic nightmare rather we should aspire to something more along the lines of NYC which is sustainable and allows for good transit. If they would have built the whole highway in the begginning I wouldnt have had a major problem with it. But now it seems silly to destroy a neighbourhood to encourage driving when the rest of the world is working on becoming denser and more efficient. Renovating lawrence height with mix used accomplishes this.. Redeveloping Eglinton accomplishes this... And taking down the ALLEN accomplishes this.. We should be excited about this not fearing that our beloved vehicle will have one less road to drive on and as a result trying to find rediculous schemes to expand a broken network.
 

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