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Planned Sprawl in the GTA

lenaitch said:
I'm certainly no expert on architecture or urban design but one element that seems to have fallen out of favour is the front porch. Both our old farmhouse and our current, 1990s design has a covered front porch where we can sit out and wave and watch the neighbourhood happen (well, on the farm, it was people driving down the road) take in the weather out of the direct sun, etc. A backyard or back deck might be better for watching the kids/pets, personal space, etc. but it doesn't help much in integrating the neighbourhood. I imagine there are all sorts of design reasons for its passing.

Another design I dislike is where the large windows and living spaces are oriented to the back. That might be the desired view or aspect but, done poorly, the house essentially turns its back on the street.
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Front porches fell out of favour in the 40s-80s but I'd say they're pretty common nowadays. Ex
www.google.ca

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.ca www.google.ca

Sometimes garages don't leave enough space for porches, but they can still function in a similar manner even if they aren't as attractive, ex:
www.google.ca

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.ca www.google.ca
 
Last edited:
Undead said:
You were doing so well up until that point! I know I should have bit my tongue, but I can't resist 😂

You're bang on about community. The built form is secondary. I've lived in suburban areas all of my life where no one knows their neighbours whether it's a tower or SFH. In fact, I'd argue people move to newer post war suburbs to not know their neighbours.

Same thing with many (most?) of the new downtown towers.

On the contrary, go to an older streetcar suburb like the Danforth, Junction or East York and you'll find much more neighbourly interaction.
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I think a lot of that is due to broader societal changes. People are more transient now due to the fact that they don't keep a job for 20+ years, so they move around more. Some of this is probably also tied to people looking to flip houses. Maybe also the tendency for kids to spend more time on their phones/computers/consoles rather than outside (TV was popular for a long time, but I'd argue it's still not as engaging for kids). Also, it takes time to establish a sense of community with neighbours, so new neighbourhoods will be at a disadvantage, whether that's a downtown condo or a new subdivision. Neighbourhoods with more old timers will have a stronger sense of community imo.

The Brampton neighbourhood I grew up in in the 90s (townhouses built around 1970) had a pretty strong sense of community. Initially, so did the neighbourhood I lived in as a teenager in Oakville in the 00s (built around 1960). But then in the mid 00s, a lot of the long time residents decided to cash out on their bungalows as developers were looking to buy them up, or in the case of the neighbours in their 80s, they passed away or moved into condos/assisted living (often one passed away or required long term care and their spouse no longer wished to live in the house alone). The new neighbours that replaced them tended not to stick together as long, so that lead to a weakening of the sense of community, although I think that's improved in the last couple years (covid + my parents getting dogs helped). The pre-WWII neighbourhoods I lived in in Waterloo didn't seem to have as strong of a sense of community, which probably had a lot to do with the fact that they had a lot university students (transcient) and on busy roads.
 
lenaitch said:
I'm certainly no expert on architecture or urban design but one element that seems to have fallen out of favour is the front porch.
Click to expand...

I'm a massive proponent of front stoop lurking. I spent four days in Detroit once drinking on the front stoop of a rather unfortunate house we were staying at. It just felt right.

I'm no being facetious, either.

I have a mate in a mountain town in BC who lives in a trailer.....I've already told him multiple times that I'm posting up on his front porch for days.

The front porch is where you can best interact with life happening as it happens. One's back yard is shit for that. It's boring.
 
afransen said:
Not going to lie, I actually like not having to engage with my neighbours.
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Was engagement compulsory in your neighbourhood? :p

My neighbour across from me is a dick....I say good morning to him and he barely mumbles a reply. I understand.
 
Memph said:
Front porches fell out of favour in the 70s-80s but I'd say they're pretty common nowadays. Ex
www.google.ca

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.ca www.google.ca

Sometimes garages don't leave enough space for porches, but they can still function in a similar manner even if they aren't as attractive, ex:
www.google.ca

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.ca www.google.ca
Click to expand...

From the pic it's nice to see the porches return, but some too small to be really useful for sitting, no more than just entrance porticos. Yes, the streetscape of garage doors is not particularly appealing. With every house having at least a single garage, on the typical smaller subdivision lots, they tend to dominate with some interior elements of the house usually designed in behind them.


The issue of neighbourhood 'cohesiveness' I think rotates on a lot of factors. In the '50s and '60s I grew up in a typical North York subdivision when we roamed until the streetlights came on. Mothers were usually home and it seemed every mother had a hand in raising every kid (or at least ratting them out to their own mother). My dad was raised on a farm but moved to the city as an adult. He talked to and knew everybody; it was just his nature. Today, urban culture seems more insular. In a large apartment or condo, how do people get to know each other except in the elevator or maybe laundry room.

I think first generation families tend to keep to themselves, perhaps out of uncertainly, language, lack of confidence, etc. I find as a broad brush, we tend to be a reserved culture, at least in Ontario. I've travelled in the States on my motorcycle and having total strangers chat me up is not uncommon. Same with the Maritimes.

Our current subdivision is mostly 1-3 acre treed lots with mixture of families and retirees. We are fairly reserved and don't socialize, but people meet and greet walking their dogs (it seems like a bylaw mandate-I think there is one cat), wave to passing vehicles whether we recognize them or not. As I mentioned, we like to sit out front after supper in the summer and watched the world go by. We have one resident who is a bit of an organizer. Pre-Covid we had an annual BYO picnic on the street and he has had a couple of entertainers in his yard ($20-any left over goes to a charity).

I think smaller communities are inherently friendlier, if for no other reason than they are smaller and, in many cases, long-term familiarity and family connections. Having said that, I have bopped around a number of small towns and always been the outsider because I was 'from' there, and had no trouble engaging in the community at a number of levels.

I often think it can start with small acts (or, in our case, that one neighbour who takes the horns). I talk to anyone, it's in my nature. Sometime people look at me like I have two heads. I figure that's their loss.
 
I think it's a problem caused by immigration as well.

No, everyone calm down, I'm not a racist....and the fact I have to put this disclaimer in is a sad, sad commentary on the state of the mentality around here....


Anyway, with mass immigration, you get more churn in certain neighbourhoods and so less chance for people to form bonds. That's been my experience in Toronto, even with the high numbers of intra-country immigrants here.
 
SunriseChampion said:
I think it's a problem caused by immigration as well.

No, everyone calm down, I'm not a racist....and the fact I have to put this disclaimer in is a sad, sad commentary on the state of the mentality around here....


Anyway, with mass immigration, you get more churn in certain neighbourhoods and so less chance for people to form bonds. That's been my experience in Toronto, even with the high numbers of intra-country immigrants here.
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Fair observation. I'm hard pressed to think of more than one household in my growing up neighbourhood that changed in the 15+ years I lived there. On of my pals is just having a birthday and I was recalling that we have known each other since grade 7 (and all lived in the area since birth or damn near), and pretty much everybody I remember from my earliest days of memory were there until we dispersed after high school.

It's a tad sad that we have to pre-deploy our defences to guard against the pitchforks at the gate, simply for making an observation.
 
SunriseChampion said:
Was engagement compulsory in your neighbourhood? :p

My neighbour across from me is a dick....I say good morning to him and he barely mumbles a reply. I understand.
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I'm polite with my neighbours. I wave and pick up their bins when they blow away and all that. I just don't want to be involved in their lives.
 
SunriseChampion said:
Was engagement compulsory in your neighbourhood? :p

My neighbour across from me is a dick....I say good morning to him and he barely mumbles a reply. I understand.
Click to expand...

Like the guy next door to me. What a jerk he is. He's a customs officer at Pearson, that dude needs to leave his bad attitude at work.

All my other neighbours are great, i have a front porch which i use all the time in the summer, i think i have met every dog in the city. We sit out there and drink till 3 am on the weekends during those hot summer nights.

Memph said:
Front porches fell out of favour in the 40s-80s but I'd say they're pretty common nowadays. Ex
www.google.ca

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.ca www.google.ca

Sometimes garages don't leave enough space for porches, but they can still function in a similar manner even if they aren't as attractive, ex:
www.google.ca

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.ca www.google.ca
Click to expand...

I have friends and family that live in neighbourhoods like this, you rarely see pedestrian traffic, no where to walk to. You need to drive everywhere. My friends house in Vaughan, it's at least a 30 min walk to the nearest convenience store. then you need to cross Rutherford Rd, which is a death trap.


I live in a suburb built in the 1970s. i got strip malls, and a grocery store all within a 10 min walk.
 
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