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Pickering Airport (Transport Canada/GTAA, Proposed)

micheal_can said:
You likely fly too... And you might even be someone who rides a train, or would if you could.
Click to expand...

I don't fly often anymore. I just don't want to spend the money on it, to be honest, and--if I may be permitted to sound like an enviro-douche--I kind of don't want to fly much because of the emissions. I try not to drive more than necessary for work or camping/festivals.

Trains are where it's at. If we had a proper rail system, getting around southern Ontario would be a lot more enjoyable. Driving is hectic as much as I enjoy racing/the open road/road trips.

I love taking the train to Ottawa, Montreal, Niagara Falls, Kitchener.

In fact, get this nonsense: my last trip to Europe was before the airport train was operational so I legit bought tickets Montreal-Frankfurt and took the train to Dorval to get on a flight across the ocean because I lived close to Exhibition Station and didn't want to mission to Pearson. hahahaa ?
My trip back was first class Dorval-Union....best believe I mowed down on salmon and wine like it was my job.
 
SunriseChampion said:
I don't fly often anymore. I just don't want to spend the money on it, to be honest, and--if I may be permitted to sound like an enviro-douche--I kind of don't want to fly much because of the emissions. I try not to drive more than necessary for work or camping/festivals.

Trains are where it's at. If we had a proper rail system, getting around southern Ontario would be a lot more enjoyable. Driving is hectic as much as I enjoy racing/the open road/road trips.

I love taking the train to Ottawa, Montreal, Niagara Falls, Kitchener.

In fact, get this nonsense: my last trip to Europe was before the airport train was operational so I legit bought tickets Montreal-Frankfurt and took the train to Dorval to get on a flight across the ocean because I lived close to Exhibition Station and didn't want to mission to Pearson. hahahaa ?
My trip back was first class Dorval-Union....best believe I mowed down on salmon and wine like it was my job.
Click to expand...

Compared to the rest of Canada, rail in Southern Ontario is great! I live 4 hours north of Toronto. I cannot easily get to Toronto by rail, but have 4 different daily flights to choose from.
 
micheal_can said:
Compared to the rest of Canada, rail in Southern Ontario is great! I live 4 hours north of Toronto. I cannot easily get to Toronto by rail, but have 4 different daily flights to choose from.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but it's still woefully sad. Might be better than most of Canada but it's still inadequate for an advanced economy.
 
micheal_can said:
I drive. I fly. But, if we are to tackle the goal of reducing our carbon footprint, a new airport is not something we should do.
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And this is the key point that everyone needs to get, a new airport will reduce congestion and by doing so reduce fuel burn per mile across the board By a large margin!

everything From enabling RNP approaches ( the most efficient way to arrive at an airport) to reducing ground idling and line ups for takeoff and landing.

billy Bishop airport estimated that its new RNP approaches will save 970 metric tones of GHG a year. As Pickering will also reduce congestion at Pearson, multiple that by 20.

here is the press release:

NAV CANADA Airspace Enhancements Coming to Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport Next Week | PortsToronto

bit.ly bit.ly
 
Nobody is suggesting rail replace a Toronto-Halifax flight. However, there's no reason rail can't replace most flights to London and Ottawa and cut some flights to Windsor and Montreal. There are still flights in corridors with High Speed Rail elsewhere. Just fewer of them. I argue that rail is less of a threat to a hypothetical Pickering airport than it is to Porter and Billy Bishop.

Mark is just not savvy selling this airport. If he were, he'd focus exclusively on boosting reliability (Pearson's on-time performance is horrible), redundancy and increased access to national and international destinations. Repeatedly arguing that a new airport will cut emissions or that there's some conspiracy at the GTAA or constantly going on with comparisons to driving is rather amateur. The biggest sales pitch for any transportation hub is the ability to connect quickly, cheaply and efficiently.

If any of his fan club is reading this. Get a spokesperson who is not old and out of touch (particularly with business travel). It'll help your cause.
 
MarkBrooks said:
And this is the key point that everyone needs to get, a new airport will reduce congestion and by doing so reduce fuel burn per mile across the board By a large margin!

everything From enabling RNP approaches ( the most efficient way to arrive at an airport) to reducing ground idling and line ups for takeoff and landing.

billy Bishop airport estimated that its new RNP approaches will save 970 metric tones of GHG a year. As Pickering will also reduce congestion at Pearson, multiple that by 20.

here is the press release:

NAV CANADA Airspace Enhancements Coming to Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport Next Week | PortsToronto

bit.ly bit.ly
Click to expand...

Ok, I live in Sudbury.

Per person, how much CO2 does the plan emit on a round trip to Toronto?
What is the same answer for the best selling vehicle this year.
What about the Canadian.

When you have those answers, you can argue emissions.
 
micheal_can said:
Ok, I live in Sudbury.

Per person, how much CO2 does the plan emit on a round trip to Toronto?
What is the same answer for the best selling vehicle this year.
What about the Canadian.

When you have those answers, you can argue emissions.
Click to expand...


Cmon don't you know the lie yet? The earth is smaller than we are told. Airplane emission figures are made up.


 
SunriseChampion said:
There are all sorts of fanboys for all sorts of things, my friend. :)
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Why the misrepresentation ? Pickering is a envisioned as passenger jet airport in the current business case I have seen. Oshawa will remain the city owned GA airport in the eastern GTA. Buttonvilles remains the private GA airport, open for as long as it’s owners wish. We need new passenger capacity.

If you don’t want to see tax dollars spent on Pickering then all the feds need to do is stipulate that in the RFP. Private investors would love to lock in an all private funded build out With appropriate billion $$ rewards.
 
MarkBrooks said:
Why the misrepresentation ? Pickering is a envisioned as passenger jet airport in the current business case I have seen. Oshawa will remain the city owned GA airport in the eastern GTA. Buttonvilles remains the private GA airport, open for as long as it’s owners wish. We need new passenger capacity.

If you don’t want to see tax dollars spent on Pickering then all the feds need to do is stipulate that in the RFP. Private investors would love to lock in an all private funded build out With appropriate billion $$ rewards.
Click to expand...

I don't think it should be built even with private money. We are trying to lower our GHG and Carbon footprint. A new airport isn't going to help do that. Getting off airplanes and on to trains for most short and medium distance trips is how.
 
micheal_can said:
Ok, I live in Sudbury.

Per person, how much CO2 does the plan emit on a round trip to Toronto?
What is the same answer for the best selling vehicle this year.
What about the Canadian.

When you have those answers, you can argue emissions.
Click to expand...

try this:

start by going to the ICAO emission calculator,

ICAO Carbon Emissions Calculator

www.icao.int www.icao.int

toronto city center to Sudbury is 54kg of co2 one way.

next go to any carbon calculator for your car punch in 592km, and select your car type. you sound like a average guy so you can just use 210 grams per km, 124Kg of CO2 of emissions for you. that’s more than twice the emissions created by flying.

and that’s a simple day drive to a close in destination. try further away, say thunderbay (1400 km). It is obvious to even the most dire hard car nut that the problem is driving not flying. unless your destination is within a few hundred km, or you are packing the whole family into an EV ( like the one I drive) please fly don’t drive.
 
MarkBrooks said:
try this:

start by going to the ICAO emission calculator,

ICAO Carbon Emissions Calculator

www.icao.int www.icao.int

toronto city center to Sudbury is 54kg of co2 one way.

next go to any carbon calculator for your car punch in 592km, and select your car type. you sound like a average guy so you can just use 210 grams per km, 124Kg of CO2 of emissions for you. that’s more than twice the emissions created by flying.

and that’s a simple day drive to a close in destination. try further away, say thunderbay (1400 km). It is obvious to even the most dire hard car nut that the problem is driving not flying. unless your destination is within a few hundred km, or you are packing the whole family into an EV ( like the one I drive) please fly don’t drive.
Click to expand...

And a diesel train? Or how about an electric high speed train?
 
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