Pickering Airport (Transport Canada/GTAA, Proposed)

[lenaitch]

Not commenting or beating up on Pickering in particular, I often question the parameters surrounding the term "carbon neutral" since it seems to often ignore the up-front carbon consumption involved in development, including raw material input such as concrete and steel production. It seems any building, airport, transit project, would start out with a whopping negative.

 

[micheal_can]

I am all for carbon neurtral, but why not first spend the money on the airports we have. Get them to carbon neutral first.

 

[MarkBrooks]

I am all for carbon neurtral, but why not first spend the money on the airports we have. Get them to carbon neutral first.

Not just the airport, all flights as well.

 

[micheal_can]

Not just the airport, all flights as well.

So, lets spend the billions on the existing air industry and get it to carbon neutral before a shovel is in the ground for a new airport.

 

[MarkBrooks]

So, lets spend the billions on the existing air industry and get it to carbon neutral before a shovel is in the ground for a new airport.

By we, I hope you mean the industry, because if CORSIA is implemented properly it should be on the shoulders of the private secto and will create business opportunities for private farmers.

that said, allowing emissions to soar due to congestion is not acceptable to anyone, building new airport infrastructure across the globe, including a new airport in Pickering, again funded by the industry when ever possible, is part of the plan.

 

[micheal_can]

By we, I hope you mean the industry, because if CORSIA is implemented properly it should be on the shoulders of the private secto and will create business opportunities for private farmers.

that said, allowing emissions to soar due to congestion is not acceptable to anyone, building new airport infrastructure across the globe, including a new airport in Pickering, again funded by the industry when ever possible, is part of the plan.

But that is just it, your plan for Pickering is taxpayer funded. Maybe we force other options on the industry before building an airport that is still not needed. One thing we could force? All international flights that are not one of the partners of AC or WJ must land and take off from Hamilton. That would alleviate Pearson.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Haven’t we reached peak air travel? Seems an odd time to build another airport.

 

[MarkBrooks]

Haven’t we reached peak air travel? Seems an odd time to build another airport.

nope... Toronto is growing by 100k new people a year, and each Canadian is traveling more by air each Year.
This a good thing, as traveling by air produces the same emissions as a Vespa scooter per km. so, given the rail blockade, if you have to travel please do so by air!

recent rail blockades have caused a spike in local air travel for obvious reasons.

 

[micheal_can]

nope... Toronto is growing by 100k new people a year, and each Canadian is traveling more by air each Year.
This a good thing, as traveling by air produces the same emissions as a Vespa scooter per km. so, given the rail blockade, if you have to travel please do so by air!

recent rail blockades have caused a spike in local air travel for obvious reasons.

Wait, What?

That Is BS and you have even proven it.

 

[MarkBrooks]

Wait, What?

That Is BS and you have even proven it.

welcome to the new reality- BTW we crossed this rubicon about a decade ago.

Highway fuel consumption for a Vespa scooter is 3.4 l per 100 km

Piaggio Vespa LX - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

fuel consumption per seat on a short haul route ( it gets better the longer you travel, but who in thier right mind would ride a scooter further than 1000 nm ?)

Fuel economy in aircraft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[micheal_can]

welcome to the new reality- BTW we crossed this rubicon about a decade ago.

Highway fuel consumption for a Vespa scooter is 3.4 l per 100 km

Piaggio Vespa LX - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

fuel consumption per seat on a short haul route ( it gets better the longer you travel, but who in thier right mind would ride a scooter further than 1000 nm ?)

Fuel economy in aircraft - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

View attachment 231631

Per Seat

What is it per aircraft? What is it per Vespa? Oh, wait it only has one seat.

 

[MarkBrooks]

This weeks rail blockade and a growing fear of a new pandemic show the need for a robust multi dimensional Canadian passenger transportation system free of chokepoints.

Rail Blockades Reinforce Need for Pickering Airport - Friends of Pickering Airport

Print 🖨 PDF 📄 eBook 📱This week Canadians have been reminded about the fragility of our transportation system. Firstly, protesters caused rail service, including VIA passenger trains, to be shut down across the country just by blocking a few key rail junctions. Secondly, fear of the new...

pickeringairport.org

 

[micheal_can]

This weeks rail blockade and a growing fear of a new pandemic show the need for a robust multi dimensional Canadian passenger transportation system free of chokepoints.

Rail Blockades Reinforce Need for Pickering Airport - Friends of Pickering Airport

Print 🖨 PDF 📄 eBook 📱This week Canadians have been reminded about the fragility of our transportation system. Firstly, protesters caused rail service, including VIA passenger trains, to be shut down across the country just by blocking a few key rail junctions. Secondly, fear of the new...

pickeringairport.org

The reason the rail is shutdown is because there is no route around it. So, we should put the rails back in in the Ottawa Valley with the Billions you want for the airport.

 

[MarkBrooks]

The reason the rail is shutdown is because there is no route around it. So, we should put the rails back in in the Ottawa Valley with the Billions you want for the airport.

There you go again with the misinformation, drop the RFP and let free enterprise roll, $500 million a year in tax revenue, $13 billion to Our GDP and 50,000 jobs.

vs 10 cents per kilometer subsidy per VIA rider. ( that’s a massive $400 million a year getting sucked out of the taxpayers pocket). VIA HFR could be made to break even with enough government investment, but pales in comparison to the profit from a new airport.

that said we need both, the Airport is easy to do, convincing voters to subsidize VIA after watch it shut for two weeks is the hard part.

 

[micheal_can]

There you go again with the misinformation, drop the RFP and let free enterprise roll, $500 million a year in tax revenue, $13 billion to Our GDP and 50,000 jobs.

vs 10 cents per kilometer subsidy per VIA rider. ( that’s a massive $400 million a year getting sucked out of the taxpayers pocket). VIA HFR could be made to break even with enough government investment, but pales in comparison to the profit from a new airport.

that said we need both, the Airport is easy to do, convincing voters to subsidize VIA after watch it shut for two weeks is the hard part.

Actually, we do not need both. Right now, Toronto and the GTA, Golden Horseshoe and southern Ontario have many airports that are not at capacity. If Pearson was blockaded, it would be horrible, but planes could fly into and out of Hamilton, Waterloo and London and they could take the brunt of the travelers. Because of the blockades, All rail between Eastern and Western Canada is grinding to a halt. To grind all air travel between Eastern and Western Canada, you would need to block at least 5+ airports.. Even then, you do have existing flights between smaller airports to other smaller airports that could allow that movement to still happen. For example, You can fly between Toronto and Winnipeg through Sudbury, Sault St Marie, and Thunder Bay. So, block Toronto and you just fly through the milk runs. Right now, that is not an option for CP, and up till this weekend, CN was going through Northern Quebec using ONR tracks to get to Montreal.

This is not about profitability of VIA. This is about the realities of our travel options and what has led us to this.