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Peterborough Commuter Rail

Methinks that the so-called white-trash Peeburg population'd be more fearful of the influx of Torontonians than vice versa...

Possibly the truth. I've met several people, in Peterborough, that have never left Peterborough county, and are actually afraid of Toronto. I've met others who have gone to Toronto and either a) been awestruck, or b) been afraid.
 
Man, I hope to hell this line is never built. Anything to keep Peterborough's white-trash population in Peterborough is a good thing.

Dem's fightin' words. If y'all be comin' to Peterborough, me and Mister F will start shootin' from our trailer windows.
 
Go to Peterborough. Observe. Come back. Post.

Yeah, okay--I'll post. I lived in Peterborough for over 10 years (and lived in Toronto, Ottawa and overseas as well) and you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Peterborough doesn't have any more white trash than the next place and the ones that are there aren't about to start spending the few dollars they have to commute to Toronto.
 
Dem's fightin' words. If y'all be comin' to Peterborough, me and Mister F will start shootin' from our trailer windows.
Yep, I been practicing shootin' rats and beer cans just in case some of those scary city folk come round.

Your trailer has windows??
 
As home of Trent U, Peeburg's more like the LUG (Lesbians Until Graduation) capital of Ontario--or at least one would assume from old Frank-style Leah McLaren-bashing...
 
peterborough is using the trains to divert trash to toronto? i bet most of that white trash is recyclable plastic. maybe that's why we're getting all these gigantic blue bins?


;)
 
I'm beginning to think that this line is a huge mistake. Bringing housing development to the Kawarthas will destroy our small towns and turn Peterborough into the new Barrie. This city has a unique feel that would be lost in its transformation into a bedroom community.

Del Mastro is on very shaky ground. In the city he is very unpopular with billboards already up telling us how awful he is. I think the general reaction from people here when this line was announced was "Hey, that's awesome." But it's not really a big issue here from what I've heard. To many people, Toronto is a distant place that you go to from time to time - the place where all the cottagers come from.

A GO bus, on second consideration, would make a lot more sense than a train - at least for now. Greyhound service works, but the terminal is awful, especially in winter when you have to wait an hour outside standing in snow banks just to get a seat.

If the federal government wanted to help out Peterborough, they would help out the homeless, drug addicts, and the underemployed. The train is for the middle classes and the rich so that they can relocate to a new house built on good farm land and forests. I thought I escaped that when I left the GTA :p
 
Peterborough is a Places to Grow Act growth centre. Intensification of downtown will occur regardless of this line being built. Any rampant greenfield development is Peterborough's failure to adequately implement its official plan.

I don't think the train is a bad idea. I think its a very good idea - but I think its best to run it down the 115/35 corridor to southeast durham region instead of across the Havelock sub, as you said.
 
A GO bus, on second consideration, would make a lot more sense than a train - at least for now. Greyhound service works, but the terminal is awful, especially in winter when you have to wait an hour outside standing in snow banks just to get a seat.

Where is Greyhound now? City, or 'burbs? (Thinking of how a lot of urban Greyhound terminals have been banished to the boondocks, maybe so they won't be hangouts for vagrants or whatever)
 
Its downtown, next door to the Peterborough Transit terminal.

Why can't GO contract a Peterborough service to Coach Canada or Greyhound? Niagara service could be contracted as well.

Coach Canada dominates the Niagara-Hamilton-Toronto corridor, and I'm sure they would love to get some subsidy from the province.

Greyhound in the market leader in the Toronto-Peterborough market. Why not have them sell tickets at GO prices and pay Greyhound the difference?

If we did it this way, we could have GO service to Niagara and Peterborough running within a month.
 
What a shame. This is yet another major transit improvement derailed by transit "advocates".

How can it be a shame by transit advocates?

It cost $700,000 for a bus that carries 55 riders and $950,000 for a double deck bus that carry 74. They have to be replace every 12 years.

The road exist for buses.

It cost $4 mill for a loco plus $2 mill a car. They have to be replace every 25-50 years.

It will cost $$ to upgrade the existing line to get track speed up to 150km. Yearly upkeep.

If the ridership is only 100, then you need 2 buses to carry those numbers.

You need 1 loco and one cab car for a GO train.

If you put more stations in along the route, you can increase the train by a car or 2. This is a good example where DMU can be use at a cost of $5 mill.

For GO or who every operates this line at 75% recovery ratio, divide the the capital cost as well operating cost by 100 and you will find it will cost the rider an arm and leg to ride this rail service. If you were talking 1,000 riders, then it more clear rail is the way.

Using an RDC will cut the cost from both operation and capital cost point, but still got to upgrade the tracks. This will reduce the cost to the riders.

Need to do a business case for each type of service.

At the same time, having 1 train a day will force riders to spend extra time before work time or after they finish. This could add an extra hour or 2 to their travel time. It not something I would chose to do on a daily base.

Running a bus route from Whiby to Peterborough is the best way until the Lakeshore gets expanded to the east.

Using the rail line would take riders off the Lakeshore route and help open up a different market.

What is the distance between the 2 lines in Durham? Cut the distance in haft and you will see how much land use there is to support this line. The difference between the 2 lines, this line has more area to the north to draw riders from than the lakeshore which has almost nothing to the south to draw from.

I perfrer to see steel wheels but not at a poor cost ratio or taking better service improvement away from badly needed areas.

Unless you have more density near the Lakeshore line, you will reduce the ridership on it as well recovery ratio.

Since there is no plans by GO to purchase DMU's that will meet RR standards that can operate on the line at the same time as CP/CN, we are back to RDC or buses.
 
Quick capital cost per rider based on 100 riders.

1 loco and cab car based over 25-50 life frame without rebuilt works out to be $48-$24 per week based on 50 weeks of use. Cost goes down as you go out in time frame.

Using a standard coach bus over the same time frame allowing for no increase of capital cost and based on replacement every 12 years with 55 riders using it 50 weeks works out to be $20-$25 per week. Cost goes up as you go out.

If you put 150 riders on the train, cost will be $24-$12 per rider.

The operation cost becomes the killer especially for fuel cost.

The problem with the train makeup, the cab car would have to be redesign for accessibility, but in the end will require adding a 3rd car to the makeup.

Doing this will make it more expensive than buying a DMU. The cab car and coach will carry 60-150 more riders than a DMU max out.

I used 100% full recovery on capital cost.
 
the toronto sun has been one of the most vocal, and perhaps influential, opponents of the 'flaherty flyer'
 

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