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Ottawa Transit Developments

robmausser said:
Correct me if Im wrong, but Alstom built the trains only, and the majority of heat and cold/ice/snow issues has been with the overhead and track.
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Correct, that's why I said everything around it was going wrong. Alstom was a smart call but they couldn't build the infrastructure to support it.
 
I never saw any evidence that Alstom was selected for cold weather expertise. They had to modify the design for Ottawa. If the cold was their main consideration, they probably would have gone with Bombardier. I think they were more worried about price and having the vehicles delivered on time.
 
Contra said:
Correct, that's why I said everything around it was going wrong. Alstom was a smart call but they couldn't build the infrastructure to support it.
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I mean.... there was the incident of body panels coming off the trains during winter testing on the line last year... and the wheel crack issues this year...
 
Contra said:
Correct, that's why I said everything around it was going wrong. Alstom was a smart call but they couldn't build the infrastructure to support it.
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If you haven't read it before, it's definitely worth reading through the list of issues that the line was facing leading up to the notice of default back in March.
There's infrastructure involved, but Alstom has been a serious disappointment on both the vehicles themselves as well as the maintenance of those vehicles after the fact.

White Pine said:
I never saw any evidence that Alstom was selected for cold weather expertise. They had to modify the design for Ottawa. If the cold was their main consideration, they probably would have gone with Bombardier. I think they were more worried about price and having the vehicles delivered on time.
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I still think it's really ironic that we already operate Alstom vehicles that weren't modified for our environment and they've performed just fine.

IIRC the average price of a Citadis Spirit, at least with Ottawa's configuration, is higher than a Flexity. The manufacturer and vehicle choice was also done by RTG, not the city.
 
OCCheetos said:
If you haven't read it before, it's definitely worth reading through the list of issues that the line was facing leading up to the notice of default back in March.
There's infrastructure involved, but Alstom has been a serious disappointment on both the vehicles themselves as well as the maintenance of those vehicles after the fact.


I still think it's really ironic that we already operate Alstom vehicles that weren't modified for our environment and they've performed just fine.

IIRC the average price of a Citadis Spirit, at least with Ottawa's configuration, is higher than a Flexity. The manufacturer and vehicle choice was also done by RTG, not the city.
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Alstom is part of RTG. The city had a choice to not select RTG if they really didn't want Alstom vehicles. It's like Edmonton is picking Bombardier through TransEd. They could also set up the bid like the Crosstown/Finch/Hurontario and was told that they had to make the system work with whatever vehicle the owner has chosen. Of course Ottawa was limited in LRT expertise and just let RTG do the job.

The cost is obviously higher cause it's 48m long instead of 30m. Plus BBD lowballed their bid prices to win and left with red ink.
 
Steve X said:
Alstom is part of RTG. The city had a choice to not select RTG if they really didn't want Alstom vehicles.
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Well that's just it, isn't it? There wasn't any real reason to not pick Alstom back in 2012.
Maybe it's also worth noting that Alstom isn't a partner in RTG, they're subcontracted to.

Steve X said:
They could also set up the bid like the Crosstown/Finch/Hurontario and was told that they had to make the system work with whatever vehicle the owner has chosen.
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This was what they did for Stage 2.

Steve X said:
The cost is obviously higher cause it's 48m long instead of 30m. Plus BBD lowballed their bid prices to win and left with red ink.
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Maybe it's because it was lowballed, but a train 2/3 the length still cost more than half as much. In any case, I don't think the Alstom vehicles really meet the definition of "cheap" at first glance.
 
OCCheetos said:
This was what they did for Stage 2.
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To be fair though, that was done mainly to ensure consistency across the entire Confederation Line. But you're right that in 2012 there were no indications that Alstom was a bad choice. It's not like RTG went with No Name brand LRTs.
 
gweed123 said:
To be fair though, that was done mainly to ensure consistency across the entire Confederation Line. But you're right that in 2012 there were no indications that Alstom was a bad choice. It's not like RTG went with No Name brand LRTs.
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The new trains for the Trillium Line were procured this way too, which was actually what I was mainly thinking of.
 
OCCheetos said:
The new trains for the Trillium Line were procured this way too, which was actually what I was mainly thinking of.
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Good point. I wonder if it was done that way because the capital works are essentially an upgrade of an existing line, and not building a new line from scratch.
 
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