OCCheetos
Active Member
As far as ION goes, it's harder for it to fall apart from computer problems because the automatic train protection system hasn't even been brought online yet. They're running full manual.
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Ottawa Transit Developments
- Thread starter Reecemartin
- Start date
OCCheetos
Active Member
There were 17 pairs completed for Stage 1 totaling 34 vehicles. Some currently-unknown number of vehicles are in various stages of assembly at Belfast, but the number is greater than 4.
15 trains to provide 3 min service consistently.
34 vehicles were ordered with another 4 added through PTIF funding. They are the ones that are in partial assembly at Belfast.
OCCheetos
Active Member
That issue doesn't require new trains to be completed. It requires the trains they have to be operational.
The plan called for a system to carry some number of ppdph. The platforms we have are long enough to achieve that. They are built to be extendable in the future when longer trains will be used (and the tunnel stations are already built to this length).
Both the Trillium and Confederation Lines are branded as LRT. I don't think anyone really agrees on what they really are, so for all intents and purposes just go with the branding.
Trillium Line: Heavy Rail? Commuter Rail? Regional Rail? Light Rail?
Confederation Line: Light Rail? Streetcar? Light Metro? Metro?
Allandale25
Senior Member
"The next full update on Stage 2 construction will come Dec. 3 at the city’s Finance and Economic Development Committee."
ottawacitizen.com
Breakdowns, missteps and apologies: LRT and the week that was
Ottawa's problem-plagued LRT system was the newsmaker of the week. From breakdowns to fix-finding to controversial comments — and apologies — it's safe to say this has not been the finest moment for transit in Ottawa.
ottawacitizen.com
kEiThZ
Superstar
So it looks like spares levels have been vastly underestimated. And based on their experience, two (twinned) spare trains is inadequate. They need 5 trains.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
"The next full update on Stage 2 construction will come Dec. 3 at the city’s Finance and Economic Development Committee."
Breakdowns, missteps and apologies: LRT and the week that was
Ottawa's problem-plagued LRT system was the newsmaker of the week. From breakdowns to fix-finding to controversial comments — and apologies — it's safe to say this has not been the finest moment for transit in Ottawa.
Why isn't Queen's Park building rapid lines in Ottawa like it will be doing with the "Ontario Line" in Toronto? (Because the "Ontario Line" is revenge for Doug Ford onto Toronto, that's why.)
Coolstar
Senior Member
You would see a subway on every corner in Ottawa if they did that.
rbt
Senior Member
Back of the napkin plans for a subway in every corner. 9 years of Fords yelling subways has resulted in exactly zero construction starts, or ready-to-tender plans.
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Kyle Campbell
Active Member
Maybe we should use URT, Unconventional rail transit
p_xavier
Active Member
It should. If there would have been less politicians involved in Ottawa, high floor vehicles would have been chosen and not those cute little streetcars in a metro system...
Kyle Campbell
Active Member
They would have just picked shorter trains. There isn't any big differences in capacity between Vancouver and Ottawa when it comes to the vehicles. The extra 25m of length of a paired Citadis over a Mark III makes up for the low floor. In no scenario would we have ended up with something like the Toronto subway or Montreal Metro rolling stock.
On paper the Citadis pair actually holds more, but real world they seem fairly equivalent.
p_xavier
Active Member
It's more of the awkardness of the interior of the trains and the extra dwell time that causes, plus snow clearance.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
2 Citadis trains can carry 600 passengers (or 2.26 passengers per square meter), compared to a 4-Car TR train which can carry 720 passengers (but this isn't a true crush-load number, it's actually closer to 800+), or 2.25 passengers per square meter. Assuming they run at the same frequencies, the TR carries 20% more. However, a fixed block signal system can get frequencies up to about 26 trains per hour, or capacity of 18,720 PPHPD, compared to the 12.5K PPHPD on the Confederation Line. This is just with fixed block signalling, with ATP, the capacities of the subway up to 25.2K PPHPD. Remember, train capacity isn't everything. Door spacing, dwell times, and frequency of service play a huge role. Ottawa lost all these benefits by going with low floor narrow stock (though admittedly, their tunnels were narrower, so they may have saved some money there).
Kyle Campbell
Active Member
You're comparing to Toronto subways, Toronto and Montreal are in a different league population wise versus Ottawa. A better comparison is cities in a similar size class, which all use trains of the same 2.6m width as Ottawa. Vancouver is much shorter, at 60m, Calgary and Edmonton are about the same 90m length with 4 car high floor Siemens S160/200s. Calgary and Edmonton claim 800 per train, but that seems unlikely given a 4 car TR is both wider and full open gangway. Vancouver claims 532 on a Mark III. So a 600 person train is within the same ballpark.
Streety McCarface
Senior Member
I'm not comparing cities, I'm comparing rolling stock. You missed the point entirely: the choice of rolling stock limits available space, uses more room, and cannot be run as frequently because of boarding characteristics and the choice of signalling.
The population doesn't even matter anyway, public transit ridership per capita does. Toronto built its first subway when the population was about 1 million (Granted, North York, Scarborough, and Etobicoke weren't amalgamated), so it doesn't really matter when the first subways were built, what matters is whether or not ridership needs are met. Ottawa's line carries 150K PPD, while that sounds like a fair light rail number, the bus system peaked at 15K PPHPD, which is a far more important metric when building public transit. That number exceeds the general capacities for Light Rail. Ottawa built a system that would be full from day 1 and would have little to no room to grow. Not only has it partially created operational problems now, but it prevents the system from growing ridership in the future.