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Ottawa Transit Developments

Ah taking a page out of the Verster playbook that's good on her. I mean, why even open up a transit line for operation anyways, just keep building it indefinitely. It's not like anyone wants to travel around right?
 
Ah taking a page out of the Verster playbook that's good on her. I mean, why even open up a transit line for operation anyways, just keep building it indefinitely. It's not like anyone wants to travel around right?
As much as I am loathe to give Verster some credit.....or maybe at the least, unfairly attribute something to him which isn't completely deserved....

The trend towards not announcing openings until some very limited time before it happens has been going on in the North American transit for several years now. It absolutely pre-dates the non-announcements of the Crosstown.

Dan
 
It makes no sense for a construction project to announce an opening date nowadays because it's impossible to know all the variables that could cause delay, and the media makes a huge deal about being late.

I mean, why even open up a transit line for operation anyways, just keep building it indefinitely. It's not like anyone wants to travel around right?
You know that announcing a date doesn't make the transit line open any earlier, right?
 
It makes no sense for a construction project to announce an opening date nowadays because it's impossible to know all the variables that could cause delay, and the media makes a huge deal about being late.
Yeah that's something we're probably not going to agree on. When you're spending billions on a massive public infrastructure project, there needs to be some accountability, of course there are going to be variables which can cause delays. But if you dont announce an opening date, contractors would have even more freedom to screw around and milk things out without any pressure to do better and improve.

You know that announcing a date doesn't make the transit line open any earlier, right?
It doesn't, but not saying a word of anything doesn't exactly instill public confidence. And if there isnt any public confidence, it just serves as another factor of driving away customers who perceive that a situation isnt going to improve anytime soon.
 
Yeah that's something we're probably not going to agree on. When you're spending billions on a massive public infrastructure project, there needs to be some accountability, of course there are going to be variables which can cause delays. But if you dont announce an opening date, contractors would have even more freedom to screw around and milk things out without any pressure to do better and improve.
Not necessarily. There are all sorts of dates - hard and otherwise - that are included in the contract language that aren't necessarily made public.

What you want is more accountability, and in fairness I think that we all do. Having better contracts, with better oversight, I would argue are more important to keeping these projects on track than giving out arbitrary dates to the public.

Dan
 
My optimistic guess is she is 95 % sure they can open in June and wants to underpromise then overdeliver rather than the contrary.
What is the basis of this assessment?

I watched the trains at South Keys today, which I consider the weak point of the line, because the track is shared by both Line 2 and 4. What I saw did not build confidence. They were running trains on both lines, but they were unable to operate either line on the contracted 12 minute schedule. The airport spur was running every 14 minutes (while I was there), and the main line was worse. Trains were delayed by signals, and because the trains were not matching up at passing locations.
Given the single track design, trains must be in the correct positions reliably before this project can be opened. With 9 trains and 6 single track sections, this will be difficult to get correct. It is not ready, and I dare say, there will need to be a lot of improvement, before a final test period can be started.
 
What is the basis of this assessment?

I watched the trains at South Keys today, which I consider the weak point of the line, because the track is shared by both Line 2 and 4. What I saw did not build confidence. They were running trains on both lines, but they were unable to operate either line on the contracted 12 minute schedule. The airport spur was running every 14 minutes (while I was there), and the main line was worse. Trains were delayed by signals, and because the trains were not matching up at passing locations.
Given the single track design, trains must be in the correct positions reliably before this project can be opened. With 9 trains and 6 single track sections, this will be difficult to get correct. It is not ready, and I dare say, there will need to be a lot of improvement, before a final test period can be started.
I think this is difficult to justify as any form of hard evidence. This line of logic assumes that their testing currently involves trying to get the system to run at ideal conditions, which isn't necessarily the case. The testing likely involves trying to simulate worst case scenerios, such as how the system is affected if someone holds the door open at a station for 30s and what kind of knock on effects that will have, or numerous other scenerios that can delay or slow down the line. So, whilst your point is intriguing, at the end of the day its also completely devoid of any form of context regarding what they're testing for and how that affects the train timing, and can't really be used as any form of indication that testing is going poorly.
 
I think this is difficult to justify as any form of hard evidence. This line of logic assumes that their testing currently involves trying to get the system to run at ideal conditions, which isn't necessarily the case. The testing likely involves trying to simulate worst case scenerios, such as how the system is affected if someone holds the door open at a station for 30s and what kind of knock on effects that will have, or numerous other scenerios that can delay or slow down the line. So, whilst your point is intriguing, at the end of the day its also completely devoid of any form of context regarding what they're testing for and how that affects the train timing, and can't really be used as any form of indication that testing is going poorly.
I am sure they are trying all sorts of scenarios, however, they also have to demonstrate that the trains can follow the proposed schedule. This has to occur before the final live testing period can start.
 
What is the basis of this assessment?

I said it was an optimistic guess. Its basis was guesswork. And some experience of how Amilcar does things.

ARG1 may be correct about them practicing different scenarios. They may also be practicing different headways. They have said that trains will run 12 minutes at all hours, but the original spec was 15 minutes off peak, and they may be reconsidering how to reduce operating costs. Given the passing tracks they have built, there is no significant logistical problem with 12 minutes, it's just a matter of learning to do it. There's lots of space in the system to do it.
 
I am sure they are trying all sorts of scenarios, however, they also have to demonstrate that the trains can follow the proposed schedule. This has to occur before the final live testing period can start.
And you're telling me that you're watching the trains at every minute of every hour of every day, and that you have a detailed portfolio of what tests you have seen and whether they have hit their goals?

I'm sorry but "I watched the trains at South Keys today" is not enough to get an idea of what kind of testing was already done, whether the testing is meeting or falling short of the requirements, and certainly not enough to make any sort of educated guess on whether or not the opening will be delayed again.
 
I swear they've parroted the 2027 (specifically they said it was 17 months late) like 1.5 years ago? Whatever, have the pics from the article:

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Glad to see C&C tunnels being built in current year.
 

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