Deadpool X
Senior Member
They are a few years away from completing Stage 2 while having several issues with Stage 1 construction. What's the point in having budget allocation for Stage 3 in 2022?No Stage 3 money in the 2022 budget.
They are a few years away from completing Stage 2 while having several issues with Stage 1 construction. What's the point in having budget allocation for Stage 3 in 2022?No Stage 3 money in the 2022 budget.
As a reminder, Stage 2 was funded and started construction roughly when Stage 1 opened. So its almost certain that Stage 3 will be funded around the same time, around 2024 or 25.They are a few years away from completing Stage 2 while having several issues with Stage 1 construction. What's the point in having budget allocation for Stage 3 in 2022?
No Stage 3 money in the 2022 budget.
Nor should there be. Given the communting patterns in Ottawa and the user profile (heavily reliant on public servant and students commuting), they need to look at what the federal work force adjustment will look like after COVID.
Infrastructure takes years to build, and it's not like we're just going to give up and pack up the LRT any time soon.They are a few years away from completing Stage 2 while having several issues with Stage 1 construction. What's the point in having budget allocation for Stage 3 in 2022?
A not-insignificant amount of operational spending is being wasted and dumped into running buses across the Greenbelt. The Confederation Line(s) should at least be extended across the Greenbelt to Fallowfield and Terry Fox to "complete" the suburban LRT network and enable better transit hubs within those communities.Nor should there be. Given the communting patterns in Ottawa and the user profile (heavily reliant on public servant and students commuting), they need to look at what the federal work force adjustment will look like after COVID.
They need to look at what is more important. Improving feeder bus service, or double tracking the Trillium Line, they'd have to decide what offers better return.
A not-insignificant amount of operational spending is being wasted and dumped into running buses across the Greenbelt.
The extension to Barrhaven is estimated at what, $3.5 billion dollars for 10 km? That's a similar per-km cost to the fully tunneled (and similar waste of money) EWLRT, on an above-ground alignment that already exists (except for the Baseline - Hunt Club section). I know that there are some rock formations or something under there, but I seriously question whether there are not projects that would get more bang for buck, like Carling LRT + Baseline BRT + BRT to North Kanata (which is < $3 billion). I can see the case for a Baseline - Fallowfield and Moodie - Eagleson or Terry Fox extension, but the extensions to Stittsville and Barrhaven Centre are madness for what should be relatively cheap extensions. The cost/benefit ratio simply isn't there.Infrastructure takes years to build, and it's not like we're just going to give up and pack up the LRT any time soon.
At this point it's been pretty well-established that the continuing operational issues are related to the poor execution of maintenance. It'll either improve over time or be completely replaced. Either way, Stage 3 is basically just new track and stations. Not funding it (at least the relatively short hops across the greenbelt) is just a political move now.
A not-insignificant amount of operational spending is being wasted and dumped into running buses across the Greenbelt. The Confederation Line(s) should at least be extended across the Greenbelt to Fallowfield and Terry Fox to "complete" the suburban LRT network and enable better transit hubs within those communities.
Also, the Fallowfield VIA crossing is going to be grade separated with or without LRT, so there's an opportunity cost there that can't just be ignored.
This isn't a strictly either-or situation.
The extension to Barrhaven is estimated at what, $3.5 billion dollars for 10 km? That's a similar per-km cost to the fully tunneled (and similar waste of money) EWLRT, on an above-ground alignment that already exists (except for the Baseline - Hunt Club section). I know that there are some rock formations or something under there, but I seriously question whether there are not projects that would get more bang for buck, like Carling LRT + Baseline BRT + BRT to North Kanata (which is < $3 billion). I can see the case for a Baseline - Fallowfield and Moodie - Eagleson or Terry Fox extension, but the extensions to Stittsville and Barrhaven Centre are madness for what should be relatively cheap extensions. The cost/benefit ratio simply isn't there.
Flat 3BThe extension to Barrhaven is estimated at what, $3.5 billion dollars for 10 km? That's a similar per-km cost to the fully tunneled (and similar waste of money) EWLRT, on an above-ground alignment that already exists (except for the Baseline - Hunt Club section). I know that there are some rock formations or something under there, but I seriously question whether there are not projects that would get more bang for buck, like Carling LRT + Baseline BRT + BRT to North Kanata (which is < $3 billion). I can see the case for a Baseline - Fallowfield and Moodie - Eagleson or Terry Fox extension, but the extensions to Stittsville and Barrhaven Centre are madness for what should be relatively cheap extensions. The cost/benefit ratio simply isn't there.
The extension to Barrhaven is estimated at what, $3.5 billion dollars for 10 km? That's a similar per-km cost to the fully tunneled (and similar waste of money) EWLRT, on an above-ground alignment that already exists (except for the Baseline - Hunt Club section). I know that there are some rock formations or something under there, but I seriously question whether there are not projects that would get more bang for buck, like Carling LRT + Baseline BRT + BRT to North Kanata (which is < $3 billion). I can see the case for a Baseline - Fallowfield and Moodie - Eagleson or Terry Fox extension, but the extensions to Stittsville and Barrhaven Centre are madness for what should be relatively cheap extensions. The cost/benefit ratio simply isn't there.
I'm sorry to say that the estimates were done inMuch of that is because construction isn't expected to start until 2031. Inflation will roughly double construction prices between now and then.
I preferred when projects were presented to the public using "todays" value instead of cash-flow value (value at time payments are actually made).
The estimate was recently revised, and including a ~$50M realignment to avoid the demolition of homes between Knoxdale and Hunt Club, the new estimate is $3.52B.Flat 3B
2B from Algonquin to Fallowfield, 1B from Fallowfield to Barrhaven Center.
I'm sorry to say that the estimates were done in20212020 dollars. There's no real timeline for when construction starts, only that the city is unwilling to take on more debt to pay for it before 2031.