Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[ShonTron]

Meanwhile, Northland is installing CWR on its mainline. I remember riding the bolted rail on the Northlander when I took it.

At least this sort of maintenance won't preclude future passenger rail: often, when that service is abandoned on secondary lines, rail maintenance drops to the bare minimum required to operate slower freights.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1257387851416813574

 

[Haydenpoon]

Travel from Winnipeg to Tronto in 30 hours.

 

[micheal_can]

Travel from Winnipeg to Tronto in 30 hours.

View attachment 245504

That is only 7 hours less than driving. Not exceptionally bad.

 

[micheal_can]

Kasper had 6-day/week service, but it required a change at Sioux Lookout. Kasper also served Fort Frances, Atikokan, and Sioux Lookout, which are not on Northland's limited service.

It's too bad a service/subsidy agreement couldn't be worked out to allow Kasper to continue to operate the secondary routes and connect with Northland.

Maybe something will get worked out for those routes.

 

[lenaitch]

Meanwhile, Northland is installing CWR on its mainline. I remember riding the bolted rail on the Northlander when I took it.

At least this sort of maintenance won't preclude future passenger rail: often, when that service is abandoned on secondary lines, rail maintenance drops to the bare minimum required to operate slower freights.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1257387851416813574

Good sign, although nothing is assured in government-land. Recall that they sold Ontera for far less that the money they spent just on a fibre optic ring network only a few years before. Other examples abound in government.

Laying rail is an interesting process to watch.

Travel from Winnipeg to Tronto in 30 hours.

View attachment 245504

Good time indeed considering transfer times. For what it's worth, Mapquest says 30h19m. I used to do Sioux Lookout to Toronto in ~20 hours and Mapquest says ~23h20m.

 

[ShonTron]

Good sign, although nothing is assured in government-land. Recall that they sold Ontera for far less that the money they spent just on a fibre optic ring network only a few years before. Other examples abound in government.

Laying rail is an interesting process to watch.




Good time indeed considering transfer times. For what it's worth, Mapquest says 30h19m. I used to do Sioux Lookout to Toronto in ~20 hours and Mapquest says ~23h20m.

It could be faster if the trip from Sudbury to Toronto wasn't the slowest, all-stops route with the diversion via Orillia. I wonder if that will change once Northland goes back to regular schedules.

 

[micheal_can]

It could be faster if the trip from Sudbury to Toronto wasn't the slowest, all-stops route with the diversion via Orillia. I wonder if that will change once Northland goes back to regular schedules.

Diversion to Orillia? When did they do that change?

 

[Urban Sky]

Travel from Winnipeg to Tronto in 30 hours.

View attachment 245504

It could be faster if the trip from Sudbury to Toronto wasn't the slowest, all-stops route with the diversion via Orillia. I wonder if that will change once Northland goes back to regular schedules.

Despite any detours, 30:00 hours is 3:59 hours faster than the current travel time of the Canadian (dep. WNPG 23:30 CT, arr. TRTO 14:29 ET) and equals the same travel time the Canadian had scheduled between 2012 and 2018 (dep. WNPG 22:30 CT, arr. TRTO 09:30 ET). It's also only 5:05 hours slower than the fastest travel time I found in any timetable was 24:55 hours back in April 1989 (i.e. just before the Canadian got re-routed via Sioux Lookout instead of Thunder Bay).

Just in case someone starts dreaming about how much faster this would be by intercity rail. Nevertheless, the timings back in 1989 (esp. in Thunder Bay and Toronto) were much better than what Ontario Northland now offers:

City	Ontario Northland (2020)	VIA Rail (1989)
Winnipeg (departure)	16:00 CT	10:35 CT
Thunder Bay (departure)	01:50 ET	21:00 ET
White River (departure)	06:50 ET	03:30 ET
Saulte-Ste-Marie (departure)	11:30 ET	(via Chapleau)
Sudbury (departure)	16:30 ET	11:50 ET
Toronto (arrival)	23:00 ET	18:30 ET

 

[Haydenpoon]

When I searched the schedule for the reversed route from Toronto back to Winnipeg, it didn't return any result. Maybe it's too time consuming to ride back.

 

[micheal_can]

When I searched the schedule for the reversed route from Toronto back to Winnipeg, it didn't return any result. Maybe it's too time consuming to ride back.

Did you try to then do it between the major terminals?

 

[Urban Sky]

Did you try to then do it between the major terminals?

If you know the obvious solution, why didn't you try it yourself?

Yes, the bus seems to be only bookable west of Saulte-Ste-Marie:
Bus #925 (Fridays and Sundays)
dep. Saulte-Ste Marie 22:30
dep. White River 02:45
arr. Thunder Bay 07:40

Bus #935 (Saturdays and Mondays)
dep. Thunder Bay 08:15
arr. Winnipeg 15:35

I assume that they have to change buses in Thunder Bay because Ontario Northland most probably lacks the federal accreditation to operate to/between destinations outside of Ontario...

 

[lenaitch]

It could be faster if the trip from Sudbury to Toronto wasn't the slowest, all-stops route with the diversion via Orillia. I wonder if that will change once Northland goes back to regular schedules.

I suppose buses are meant to serve the citizens along the route, not just those and the end points. The Canadian would probably get better times if it only stopped in Toronto and Vancouver.
Back in the day, Greyhound did have a Sudbury-Toronto express run, I believe at night.

I don't know when (or why) ON diverted to Orillia but it's been a while.

I assume that they have to change buses in Thunder Bay because Ontario Northland most probably lacks the federal accreditation to operate to/between destinations outside of Ontario...

Their schedule shows a transfer and ~40m layover at both Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie. I assumed the transfers were more for driver and fleet management. There seems to be no indication that this is a partnership service. I'm not aware that the federal government regulates inter-provincial buses. Regardless, they would likely have to obtain approval from Manitoba.

 

[ShonTron]

I suppose buses are meant to serve the citizens along the route, not just those and the end points. The Canadian would probably get better times if it only stopped in Toronto and Vancouver.
Back in the day, Greyhound did have a Sudbury-Toronto express run, I believe at night.

I don't know when (or why) ON diverted to Orillia but it's been a while.




Their schedule shows a transfer and ~40m layover at both Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie. I assumed the transfers were more for driver and fleet management. There seems to be no indication that this is a partnership service. I'm not aware that the federal government regulates inter-provincial buses. Regardless, they would likely have to obtain approval from Manitoba.

One of three daily bus trips between Toronto and Sudbury was via Orillia and Coldwater (the other two went straight up the 400), but ran express between Parry Sound and Sudbury Health Sciences. Other trips made local stops north of Parry Sound.

My guess is that the current schedules, with minimal service, operate all-stops.

 

[Urban Sky]

Their schedule shows a transfer and ~40m layover at both Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie. I assumed the transfers were more for driver and fleet management. There seems to be no indication that this is a partnership service. I'm not aware that the federal government regulates inter-provincial buses. Regardless, they would likely have to obtain approval from Manitoba.

I had heard one of my colleagues mentioning that the REGIM had troubles operating their Gaspé-Shuttle out of Campbellton, as their provincial registration was not really conducive to operating across interprovincial borders. However, I believe that they have been operating their shuttle (out of Campbellton) already for at least one summer and one Christmas season, which suggests that this wasn’t an insurmountable barrier for them...

 

[tmlittle]

After months of effective radio silence on the Northlander from the province, it's not surprising to see hack job studies like this bubble to the surface, which pull magic tricks like taking all of Northern Ontario's population density (1 person/km) as an argument for density being too low to support rail service, ignoring that a passenger route serving Huntsville, Gravenhurst, and North Bay isn't exactly the same thing as covering the entire North up to Moose Factory in passenger service. No doubt it will be one of the "studies" cited when the province yet again refuses to reinstate the Northlander.