Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[micheal_can]

Some of the candy bars and chips in the vending machine at the VIA station in Saskatoon were well past their best before dates when I passed through in 2023. And that’s a “major” station with a layover.

When the Vancouver Island RDC was running, a catering truck would meet the train on its daily northbound and southbound runs at Nanaimo, where there was a short layover. That guaranteed a better and fresher assortment of snacks and light meals, but then again, the RDC had no food service, so it was your only option. The RDC’s schedule adherence was pretty good too with little other traffic.

You are getting on and off the Canadian which has full meal service. If it were a Corridor type service servicing this station, I would agree that there may be a need.

 

[lenaitch]

GO stations lack washrooms. To me, that is a key thing these future shelters should have. Unlike GO that tends to be on time, most, if not all intercity in Canada does not seem to have the same on time performance.

The problem with a washroom, in terms of complexity and cost, is where the 'the stuff' goes. For places like Parry Sound, Gravenhurst, etc. perhaps; although if there is a need to extend a sanitary trunk if might get spendy, depending. Places like Washago or any other station stop that doesn't have access to a sanitary system would be a problem. A septic system would likely be extremely challenging, even if the property owner agreed. That would leave a holding tank, at a cost and, again, if the landowner agreed.

Some of the candy bars and chips in the vending machine at the VIA station in Saskatoon were well past their best before dates when I passed through in 2023. And that’s a “major” station with a layover.

When the Vancouver Island RDC was running, a catering truck would meet the train on its daily northbound and southbound runs at Nanaimo, where there was a short layover. That guaranteed a better and fresher assortment of snacks and light meals, but then again, the RDC had no food service, so it was your only option. The RDC’s schedule adherence was pretty good too with little other traffic.

I actually like the idea (assuming such a service existed in the community). Not necessarily the construction-site-serving 'maggot wagon' fleets in Toronto that I remember from my youth where the coffee was factory brewed in gazillion gallon vats, but I've lived in a couple of towns where a decent restaurant did site catering on the side, either with their own truck or trailer or through a contractor, and the fare was quite decent.

 

[micheal_can]

The problem with a washroom, in terms of complexity and cost, is where the 'the stuff' goes. For places like Parry Sound, Gravenhurst, etc. perhaps; although if there is a need to extend a sanitary trunk if might get spendy, depending. Places like Washago or any other station stop that doesn't have access to a sanitary system would be a problem. A septic system would likely be extremely challenging, even if the property owner agreed. That would leave a holding tank, at a cost and, again, if the landowner agreed.

I know it is not as simple as wishing it into existence. If we use the location of Isabella St as an example, it looks to be in an areas that is already served by the local services. Gravenhurst is the same. I am trying to think of a station location that is being rebuilt, or that would be served in any dream future that would not be close to any municipal services that would warrant a station to be built in the first place.

I actually like the idea (assuming such a service existed in the community). Not necessarily the construction-site-serving 'maggot wagon' fleets in Toronto that I remember from my youth where the coffee was factory brewed in gazillion gallon vats, but I've lived in a couple of towns where a decent restaurant did site catering on the side, either with their own truck or trailer or through a contractor, and the fare was quite decent.

If the station is well located, some sort of restaurant that would be visited by locals to support it when the train is not there would be good for the community as a whole.

 

[lenaitch]

I know it is not as simple as wishing it into existence. If we use the location of Isabella St as an example, it looks to be in an areas that is already served by the local services. Gravenhurst is the same. I am trying to think of a station location that is being rebuilt, or that would be served in any dream future that would not be close to any municipal services that would warrant a station to be built in the first place.



If the station is well located, some sort of restaurant that would be visited by locals to support it when the train is not there would be good for the community as a whole.

In terms of the ONR, as you should be aware, no stations are "being rebuilt". All station stops will be new kiosks, existing operating buildings (GO, North Bay, Englehart) or the new build in Timmins. A quick assessment of each station stop site is in the business case. Many existing structures are no longer owned by the railways and businesses will do what businesses do.

In terms of restaurants, I wonder how many VIA corridor stations - which see multiple trains per day - house restaurants. I don't know anything about running a restaurant but being in a train station, in and of itself, doesn't sound like a great business model. There has to be other factors to keep traffic coming in the door.

 

[ShonTron]

In terms of the ONR, as you should be aware, no stations are "being rebuilt". All station stops will be new kiosks, existing operating buildings (GO, North Bay, Englehart) or the new build in Timmins. A quick assessment of each station stop site is in the business case. Many existing structures are no longer owned by the railways and businesses will do what businesses do.

In terms of restaurants, I wonder how many VIA corridor stations - which see multiple trains per day - house restaurants. I don't know anything about running a restaurant but being in a train station, in and of itself, doesn't sound like a great business model. There has to be other factors to keep traffic coming in the door.

Toronto Union and Montreal Central have multiple options of course, but they are also major intermodal transport hubs in the heart of each city’s downtown core.

Québec City’s Gare du Palais has a cafe – it also serves as a bus terminal. There’s also a steakhouse, but I doubt that’s geared towards travellers.

Ottawa has a coffee kiosk.

That’s it.

 

[Willybru21]

I can’t remember if/when it’s been discussed in this thread, but has any information been released on how they’ll be handling boarding at Union? Will ON be using the VIA facilities or the GO facilities in the station?

 

[rbt]

Ottawa has a coffee kiosk.

London almost had a coffee kiosk a couple years ago. A counter and equipment was installed (display case, coffee machine, ...) but I don't think it opened or even had branding. Then the space was demolished and rebuilt as a customer service area.

The vending machine had salads and sandwiches for short time and now its just straight candy.

 

[micheal_can]

In terms of the ONR, as you should be aware, no stations are "being rebuilt". All station stops will be new kiosks, existing operating buildings (GO, North Bay, Englehart) or the new build in Timmins. A quick assessment of each station stop site is in the business case. Many existing structures are no longer owned by the railways and businesses will do what businesses do.

When I say rebuilt,I meant they are building a new facility in almost the same location as where one existed.

In terms of restaurants, I wonder how many VIA corridor stations - which see multiple trains per day - house restaurants. I don't know anything about running a restaurant but being in a train station, in and of itself, doesn't sound like a great business model. There has to be other factors to keep traffic coming in the door.

Sadly, most Via stations are poorly located. Most of them are located in a sea of parking lots or somewhere in a rural area, or in an area not really that accessible.
Of the Corridor stations I have seen:

Ottawa: not really accessible till the LRT opened. Still in a sea of parking lots.
Kingston: a sea of parking lots. Not really walkable.
Brockville: In a rural setting
Windsor: In an industrial area.
St Mary's: Not really accessible.

London is downtown, so it could also house a restaurant.

Union and Central are both great examples.

For Canadian:
Waterfront: When I was there it had an A&W.
Pacific Central: In the middle of a park. There are restaurants around it.
Jasper: In the downtown of the town.
Edmonton: Middle of nothing surrounded by industrial.
Winnipeg: Located downtown. Never went in, so no idea inside.
Capreol: Located in their downtown, but nothing is open when the train goes west..
Sudbury: Located downtown, but nothing located in it.
Sudbury Junction: Middle of an industrial area.
Parry Sound: We all know what they are.

Ocean:
Mirimachi: Located in a residential area.
Halifax: Located downtown. This could house a nice restaurant.

Northlander:
Gravenhurst: located in a built up area.
Huntsville: Not really that accessible.
North Bay: Enclosed tunnel under the tracks, but not a covered walkway to the mall.
Temagami: Located right by some businesses.
New Liskeard: Not that accessible, and hidden from view.
Engelhart: Located near residential. Engelhart is smallenough that you could walk around the whole town in a reasonable amount of time.
Future Timmins: Located at the edge of some residential If space allowed, this could serve the local community.

 

[Bordercollie]

When I say rebuilt,I meant they are building a new facility in almost the same location as where one existed.


Sadly, most Via stations are poorly located. Most of them are located in a sea of parking lots or somewhere in a rural area, or in an area not really that accessible.
Of the Corridor stations I have seen:

Ottawa: not really accessible till the LRT opened. Still in a sea of parking lots.
Kingston: a sea of parking lots. Not really walkable.
Brockville: In a rural setting
Windsor: In an industrial area.
St Mary's: Not really accessible.

London is downtown, so it could also house a restaurant.

Union and Central are both great examples.

For Canadian:
Waterfront: When I was there it had an A&W.
Pacific Central: In the middle of a park. There are restaurants around it.
Jasper: In the downtown of the town.
Edmonton: Middle of nothing surrounded by industrial.
Winnipeg: Located downtown. Never went in, so no idea inside.
Capreol: Located in their downtown, but nothing is open when the train goes west..
Sudbury: Located downtown, but nothing located in it.
Sudbury Junction: Middle of an industrial area.
Parry Sound: We all know what they are.

Ocean:
Mirimachi: Located in a residential area.
Halifax: Located downtown. This could house a nice restaurant.

Northlander:
Gravenhurst: located in a built up area.
Huntsville: Not really that accessible.
North Bay: Enclosed tunnel under the tracks, but not a covered walkway to the mall.
Temagami: Located right by some businesses.
New Liskeard: Not that accessible, and hidden from view.
Engelhart: Located near residential. Engelhart is smallenough that you could walk around the whole town in a reasonable amount of time.
Future Timmins: Located at the edge of some residential If space allowed, this could serve the local community.

The stations are owned by the township? What about the land?
You need to give development right on and around the station to business, hotels and condos.

That will grow the area around the station making it not a desolate parking lot.

Same with VIA. Free parking is great but the air space over that parking lot is worth a fortune. Which will convert to ridership.

 

[micheal_can]

The stations are owned by the township? What about the land?
You need to give development right on and around the station to business, hotels and condos.

That will grow the area around the station making it not a desolate parking lot.

Same with VIA. Free parking is great but the air space over that parking lot is worth a fortune. Which will convert to ridership.

Ottawa is a great example of that. Turn that all into residential towers. Have parking for the station, and then make money off of the air rights.

 

[lenaitch]

When I say rebuilt,I meant they are building a new facility in almost the same location as where one existed.

Your definition of "building a new facility" and mine are clearly different than mine.

Sadly, most Via stations are poorly located.

Not VIA's fault - they go where the tracks are and it should be a surprise to no one that rail lands tend to be surrounded by non-residential, both because they primarily served freight needs and few like to live near them.

Brockville: In a rural setting

I must be thinking of a different Brockville where the station is a couple of blocks off the main drag.

You need to give development right on and around the station to business, hotels and condos.

If this is your solution for places like St. Marys, Capreol and South River, I want some of what you are smoking.