micheal_can
Senior Member
Reminds me of the "temporary" shelters the North Bay Transit built. They were there for over 20 years. I would have thought a permanent shelter for these stations would be better, and maybe even include a washroom.
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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation
- Thread starter CDL.TO
- Start date
lenaitch
Senior Member
I don't read anything in the release that these shelters are anything but permanent.
I'm not sure transit shelters have lights and heat (and, according to one description, a digital display). With one train per day, these shelters will see sporadic use. Adding washrooms significantly complicates the design and costs. I doubt many are in an area serviced by municipal water and waste system (please don't say a porta potty is acceptable). There is no need for traditional railway station building facilities such as ticket agents, baggage, station operator, etc. Anything south of North Bay will be on CN property and subject to their rules. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the existing Huntsville station building doesn't get returned to some kind of service. Both the town and the building's private owners seem keen on having it serve both as a train and bus station. Others, such as Gravenhurst and Temagami are also in private hands, with tenants. Others, such as Kirkland Lake (Swastika) are apparently in sugstandard condition.
micheal_can
Senior Member
They will see 2 uses a day everyday.The challenge is many of these stations will be served late, so they need to not only be safe, but feel safe.Things like heat/AC among other things is important. Most could be set up so that the bus services use them as well.Porta potties are not acceptable, but if there is no facility, how many will find their own?
lenaitch
Senior Member
They will have heat. Air conditioning is not specifically mentioned in the press release but let's assume ventilation. If you are looking for a station attendant to make people feel safe in the middle of the night you are going to have to be disappointed, as you would be at most GO and VIA stations as well. Adding washrooms and the infrastructure required for them would be a massively complicating feature at many locations.
Quite frankly, since most stations will serve a wide area, I suspect most passengers will wait in their vehicles, which was the case with the previous train.
I suppose there is nothing preventing the shelters being used by the bus service as well, other factors considered.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Those things look like giant ovens. Even the old bus shelters were like ovens.
I fully expect there to be a ticket machine I don't feel attendants are needed.
If people are expected to wait in their car for AC, why even build these. Doug Ford should feel comfortable leaving his family in it in the most extreme weather.
crs1026
Superstar
If there are lights and a ticket machine, there is likely a data connection, and that ought to enable video cameras, a panic button and intercom, and hopefully a screen showing how long until the train arrives. Not very difficult or expensive in today's technology.
The point of the shelter is a) a little more obvious and "permanent looking" place to confirm to passengers (and pickups) that this is where the train will stop, a clearly indicated place to assemble and board and b) the train may arrive before the pickup driver, or the dropoff driver may not want to hang around, and it's reasonable to provide shelter for passengers while they wait.
One would hope for a bit of outdoor shade. I wonder about screens to keep the bugs out in good weather.
A question - who arranges for periodic (daily?) inspection, trash removal, sweeping and snow clearing on platforms, checks on power, light bulbs, door latches etc. Seems reasonable for each community to provide this somehow - unlike a big city, you won't have a contract shelter maintainer driving the route.
- Paul
dowlingm
Senior Member
If I was incepting a service that was on such a shaky financial premise as this one, I might not drop much money on structures in the first half-decade either, just like I might buy trains that I can easily sell because they are being serviced by the same technicians in the same facility as the mostly likely buyer.
lenaitch
Senior Member
No clue about ticket machines/kiosks. They could just as easily do online sales or through the on board crew with tablets like they do with the buses and, I believe, the PBX.
Good point about maintenance. It would be a good community partnership angle, certainly on the CN portion. On their own ROW they could do a similar partnership or get the MOW crews to do it.
Or build large brick stations with all the amenities, an attendant, perhaps a Starbucks.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
It's possible that ONR is expecting/hoping to also get contracts doing inspections for other railways in the area such as the Ottawa Valley Railway (Sudbury to North Bay and beyond), Huron Central Railway (Sudbury to Sault Ste Marie), and Algoma Central Railway (North from Sault Ste Marie). The Nipissing Central Railway is owned by ONR so they definitely do the maintenance for that line already.
ONR has a history of doing work for other companies to make some money on the side, such as the contracts they got to refurbish GO Transit coaches.
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Northern Light
Superstar
In respect of the shelter discussion, let me bring forward this render, which I have enlarged:
Lighting in ceiling is clearly visible
Digital, backlit screens are shown to the left of the door.
The heater is suspended from the ceiling, perpendicular to the light fixtures
The ticketing kiosk is to the right of the door.
* The metal benches are dumb idea, the TTC uses a variation of these are they are very susceptible to super-heating in the sun and getting ultra-cold in the winter. They should poach the platform seating design from GO Transit instead, which uses plastic and a wood product, a laminate, I presume. .
Lighting in ceiling is clearly visible
Digital, backlit screens are shown to the left of the door.
The heater is suspended from the ceiling, perpendicular to the light fixtures
The ticketing kiosk is to the right of the door.
* The metal benches are dumb idea, the TTC uses a variation of these are they are very susceptible to super-heating in the sun and getting ultra-cold in the winter. They should poach the platform seating design from GO Transit instead, which uses plastic and a wood product, a laminate, I presume. .
I lived a lot of years in the north, back when the Northlander ran. We didn’t have any shelters so this is a huge upgrade.
micheal_can
Senior Member
One would hope a local contractor can be utilized to try to keep these clean.
That makes the most sense of why they look as they do. Spend as little to make something 'good enough' to placate the voters. We don't need grandiose stations, but these do not look long term permanent fixtures.
No Ac... No washrooms.
2 simple, but important stations, especially if someone is using a bus connection.
I know when GO stations are built, sometimes they get replaced with a much better station. Maybe this is the case, but if it is, what a waste.
We also had 20+ year old trains.
lenaitch
Senior Member
I saw that and wasn't sure if it was meant to be a ticketing terminal . . . or a garbage receptacle.
People are going a little nuts over a render. Unless the RFQ or whatever is unusually prescriptive, and specifies things like a hanging radiant heater and metal seating, I would suspect that the proponent has laid out a set of specifications (floor area, amenities, power requirements, etc.) and see what the proposals come up with. I think to compare them to transit shelters is unfair, at least at this point.
People should consider the infrastructure (and addition floor space) required for a washroom, let alone on somebody else's property and consider that in relation to expected usage, alongside unintended patronage.
These stations won't be embarking dozens of people multiple times a day. On the CN portion of the route, they will have to negotiate agreements with the trackside property owner, which may or may not be the railway. Each station stop is described in the business case. Where station buildings exist (in serviceable condition), many are in private or municipal hands and have tenants.
Northern Light
Superstar
I don't believe I used the transit shelter descriptor at all.
I simply enlarged the render, and described it, without any judgement.
Also, to my understanding, the design you see above is final.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Apologies - I was responding more globally on some of the recent comments.
As for finality, you might be right, but the government press release states:
Enseicom Inc. has been awarded the contract to design and manufacture nine new station shelters.