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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

lenaitch said:
A little bit of greenwashing there when they use the terms "hybrid diesel-electric engines". No doubt they will be the latest generation of diesel but still, that 'hybrid' combination has been around for 80 years.
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Not greenwashing, just an article written by someone who doesn't understand the technology and terminology.

To be a hybrid the locomotive would also require a battery to store energy, and allow it to be used in addition to or to the exception of the diesel engine. The Siemens locos don't have this.

There are hybrid locomotives, but they are few and far in between. These are just a standard diesel-electric locomotive, where "electric" denotes the transmission. No different than a "diesel-mechanical" or "diesel-hydraulic" in that sense, with the other words describing different means of transferring power from the engine to the wheels.

Dan
 
lenaitch said:
Now I'm sorry I mentioned it. The ONR media person used the term "hybrid" and some people go nuts.
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But it's factually wrong to describe it as a "hybrid".

I can appreciate that not everyone understands the nuances - not everyone needs to - but a media person, and especially one who is working for the organization, better make sure that they are absolutely correct in what they say and not spread falsehoods.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
Not greenwashing, just an article written by someone who doesn't understand the technology and terminology.

To be a hybrid the locomotive would also require a battery to store energy, and allow it to be used in addition to or to the exception of the diesel engine. The Siemens locos don't have this.

There are hybrid locomotives, but they are few and far in between. These are just a standard diesel-electric locomotive, where "electric" denotes the transmission. No different than a "diesel-mechanical" or "diesel-hydraulic" in that sense, with the other words describing different means of transferring power from the engine to the wheels.

Dan
Click to expand...
Dan, would you consider that hybrid locomotives are only hybrid if the battery is integral to the locomotive itself? For example, the MetroNorth ALC-42E will have, as I understand it, a battery unit connected to it but on separate trucks. But it is supplying power not fuel, so isn’t obviously a tender like is being proposed for the hydrogen burning EMD 645 locomotive project in Ireland.
 
smallspy said:
But it's factually wrong to describe it as a "hybrid".

I can appreciate that not everyone understands the nuances - not everyone needs to - but a media person, and especially one who is working for the organization, better make sure that they are absolutely correct in what they say and not spread falsehoods.

Dan
Click to expand...
Media people, particularly those from government and government-adjacent, are fond of catch phrases, buzzwords, etc. to work into everything, sometimes even when they are not correct or even sometimes even related to the topic at hand. There is also the distinct possibility that they have been given 'talking points' by the government/Premier's Office. People would be surprised how much the government manages and parses some of the most seemingly mundane topics and events.
 
smallspy said:
But it's factually wrong to describe it as a "hybrid".

I can appreciate that not everyone understands the nuances - not everyone needs to - but a media person, and especially one who is working for the organization, better make sure that they are absolutely correct in what they say and not spread falsehoods.

Dan
Click to expand...

It doesn't have a battery, but it does use regenerative braking for HEP. That is likley better than the losses involved in charging and discharging a battery. AFAIK, no other diesel-electric locomotive in Canada does this.

EDIT: From the Siemens Charger factsheet: "The Charger locomotives are equipped with electronically-controlled regenerative braking systems that use energy from the traction motors during braking to feed the auxiliary and head-end power systems to minimize fuel consumption."
 
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Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca news.ontario.ca

Three major Northlander contracts awarded.

Sorry short on time so someone may want to extract the images.

Screenshot_2024-05-31_182931.jpg
 
dowlingm said:
Dan, would you consider that hybrid locomotives are only hybrid if the battery is integral to the locomotive itself? For example, the MetroNorth ALC-42E will have, as I understand it, a battery unit connected to it but on separate trucks. But it is supplying power not fuel, so isn’t obviously a tender like is being proposed for the hydrogen burning EMD 645 locomotive project in Ireland.
Click to expand...
I don't know enough about the configuration of the Metro North units to feel comfortable commenting on them.

lenaitch said:
Media people, particularly those from government and government-adjacent, are fond of catch phrases, buzzwords, etc. to work into everything, sometimes even when they are not correct or even sometimes even related to the topic at hand. There is also the distinct possibility that they have been given 'talking points' by the government/Premier's Office. People would be surprised how much the government manages and parses some of the most seemingly mundane topics and events.
Click to expand...
I'm 100% in agreement with you.

Which is why it can be so galling when they are so obviously wrong, and then the media - not knowing any better - continues to spread that same falsehood without thinking.

roger1818 said:
It doesn't have a battery, but it does use regenerative braking for HEP. That is likley better than the losses involved in charging and discharging a battery. AFAIK, no other diesel-electric locomotive in Canada does this.

EDIT: From the Siemens Charger factsheet: "The Charger locomotives are equipped with electronically-controlled regenerative braking systems that use energy from the traction motors during braking to feed the auxiliary and head-end power systems to minimize fuel consumption."
Click to expand...
I'm well aware. The ACS-64 does the same.

But that still doesn't make it a hybrid. It's not storing that energy for later use, simply redirecting it. That energy to be converted to electricity and directed to the dynamic brake grids to get used (wasted) as heat, now it's to the rolling stock attached to it. And it isn't going to be able to use all of it for the HEP, which is why there are still dynamic brake grids.

Dan
 
Allandale25 said:

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca news.ontario.ca

Three major Northlander contracts awarded.

Sorry short on time so someone may want to extract the images.

View attachment 568311
Click to expand...
I have been told (ya . . . I know), that they will be welding rail from Washago to Timmins/Cochrane.

I assume that 'track improvements', including a new or extended passing track around Beaverton (?) will be done by or through CN so the ONR is just writing cheques.

With all the balls up in the air, it is unrealistic to expect that the implementation could be ahead of schedule as some seem to breathlessly desire. This is beyond putting an APU and a couple of former GO cars behind a freight loco.
 
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