Ontario Line North of Eglinton (was Relief Line North) (Speculation)

[TossYourJacket]

This needs to be on Don Mills in my opinion to churn up development and make it more accessible. Also Metrolinx has previously come out and supported an alignment on Don Mills Road. Lets not forget Don Mills and Sheppard is the end of the Sheppard subway so anything east would not make sense unless they are planning to extend the Sheppard line forsure in the near future.

Metrolinx never fully endorsed a Don Mills alignment, at least not in the RL North studies. Vic Park (with Line 4 being extended to Vic Park/Sheppard) seemed to be very much also an option for them as well. And given the government does want to extend the Sheppard Line sooner than later, I don't think it's a for sure thing that the OL extension is locked in along Don Mills. Is it most likely? Probably, but I would not be entirely surprised if it ends up on Vic Park either.

While the Don Mills alignment is great for Seneca College, the Vic Park alignment works much better for the Consumers Road business area, which is the second largest employment area in the City of Toronto outside of downtown (since the Airport Corporate Zone is technically in Mississauga), so both alignments have their own unique justifications.

 

[toronto647]

Metrolinx never fully endorsed a Don Mills alignment, at least not in the RL North studies. Vic Park (with Line 4 being extended to Vic Park/Sheppard) seemed to be very much also an option for them as well. And given the government does want to extend the Sheppard Line sooner than later, I don't think it's a for sure thing that the OL extension is locked in along Don Mills. Is it most likely? Probably, but I would not be entirely surprised if it ends up on Vic Park either.

While the Don Mills alignment is great for Seneca College, the Vic Park alignment works much better for the Consumers Road business area, which is the second largest employment area in the City of Toronto outside of downtown (since the Airport Corporate Zone is technically in Mississauga), so both alignments have their own unique justifications.

The Ontario Line Loop they released a few months ago showed it along Don Mills (of course this could have just been for visual purposes only). Also Ford, Metrolinx, MTO have shown time over time that they wanted all extensions to add to connections. With that being said OLNE will have to meet with the Sheppard Subway and with no immediate plans of extending it further east then there is no choice other than going up Don Mills.

Out of curiosity if they were to do Vic Park alignment then were would the OL route from Don Mills and Wynford where it is currently ending?

 

[11th]

This needs to be on Don Mills in my opinion to churn up development and make it more accessible. Also Metrolinx has previously come out and supported an alignment on Don Mills Road. Lets not forget Don Mills and Sheppard is the end of the Sheppard subway so anything east would not make sense unless they are planning to extend the Sheppard line forsure in the near future.

I brought up the ROW because of Yonge North extension plan of using an existing rail ROW - and that section's not even owned by Metrolinx. I also think an extension of line 4 is likely, so I don't see the need to be fixated on an artifically created terminus as the hub.
There is developable land between York Mills and the rail tracks north of Lawrence, but I doubt they will put in a station between York Mills and Lawrence. Elsewhere you have a river valley/greenspace between York Mills and the 401. I guess the Peanut can be razed and put in towers?

 

[TRONto]

They only need to elevate it to just north of Lawrence. Then the line can be done with very low budget using the rail ROW Metrolinx owns (Don Mills-Lawrence > Lesmill > Leslie > Finch East > along hydro corridor? Seneca).
It's not the most ideal route for everyone because Don Mills will not be the interchange station, but..
This avoids the need to dig up the Don Mills/Sheppard intersection. Also no construction required over one of the worst chokepoint on the 401. All of that will speed up delivery and lower the cost.

At least on the specific issue of digging up the intersection, Metrolinx may choose to keep the line elevated just as at Don Mills/Eglinton making it easier to expand.

 

[duffo]

I brought up the ROW because of Yonge North extension plan of using an existing rail ROW - and that section's not even owned by Metrolinx.

Once the YNSE is built, I'm not sure that the Richmond Hill line south of Langstaff will make much sense - it's basically the same travel time as the future subway with much fewer stops. Would be really interesting if MX decommissioned that segment of the RH line. While this would force a transfer at the future Langstaff station for GO travel north of the station, it would let them very quickly and affordably build a OL guideway along the corridor between Don Mills and the Finch Hydro Corridor (red on map below), which is most of the length of an extension to Seneca. This could also allow MX another win - they could move the planned Don Yard layover facility partly onto the current ROW since they tracks would no longer be active, and reduce the footprint of the layover.

 

[toronto647]

Once the YNSE is built, I'm not sure that the Richmond Hill line south of Langstaff will make much sense - it's basically the same travel time as the future subway with much fewer stops. Would be really interesting if MX decommissioned that segment of the RH line. While this would force a transfer at the future Langstaff station for GO travel north of the station, it would let them very quickly and affordably build a OL guideway along the corridor between Don Mills and the Finch Hydro Corridor (red on map below), which is most of the length of an extension to Seneca. This could also allow MX another win - they could move the planned Don Yard layover facility partly onto the current ROW since they tracks would no longer be active, and reduce the footprint of the layover.

View attachment 440245

I do not believe that will be the route of the northern extension. It is too west and is very close to the Yonge line. Why would people get off there and not just on the Yonge Line which will take them closer to their work and shorter amount of wait time.

Like another poster said it will run either on Don Mills or Victoria Park. My bet would be Don Mills but lets see. I guess time will tell..

 

[11th]

I do not believe that will be the route of the northern extension. It is too west and is very close to the Yonge line. Why would people get off there and not just on the Yonge Line which will take them closer to their work and shorter amount of wait time.

Like another poster said it will run either on Don Mills or Victoria Park. My bet would be Don Mills but lets see. I guess time will tell..

I think bypassing line 1 alone, might entice people to switch to OL even if it adds 5-10 min more to their commute. That's just a guesstimate - Leslie to Queen via line 4 and 1 is 15 stations, 13 stations via OL, assuming stations are built only at York Mills and Lawrence. The train should also run faster. Besides, Queen and Osgoode stations are within walking distance to a lot of downtown offices.

 

[11th]

Once the YNSE is built, I'm not sure that the Richmond Hill line south of Langstaff will make much sense - it's basically the same travel time as the future subway with much fewer stops. Would be really interesting if MX decommissioned that segment of the RH line. While this would force a transfer at the future Langstaff station for GO travel north of the station, it would let them very quickly and affordably build a OL guideway along the corridor between Don Mills and the Finch Hydro Corridor (red on map below), which is most of the length of an extension to Seneca. This could also allow MX another win - they could move the planned Don Yard layover facility partly onto the current ROW since they tracks would no longer be active, and reduce the footprint of the layover.

View attachment 440245

They can run peak hours services from Bloomington down to the Finch hydro corridor station, or even Oriole, if they can find ways/room to make it work; or make that a peak hours branch of OL.

 

[TossYourJacket]

The Ontario Line Loop they released a few months ago showed it along Don Mills (of course this could have just been for visual purposes only). Also Ford, Metrolinx, MTO have shown time over time that they wanted all extensions to add to connections. With that being said OLNE will have to meet with the Sheppard Subway and with no immediate plans of extending it further east then there is no choice other than going up Don Mills.

Out of curiosity if they were to do Vic Park alignment then were would the OL route from Don Mills and Wynford where it is currently ending?

I believe the rough map MX had showing the potential alignments for RL North had it going along the midtown rail corridor after Science Centre station for at least some of the alignment, and then the first station on Vic Park was at Lawrence. So presumably something similar to that.

 

[toronto647]

I believe the rough map MX had showing the potential alignments for RL North had it going along the midtown rail corridor after Science Centre station for at least some of the alignment, and then the first station on Vic Park was at Lawrence. So presumably something similar to that.

Thanks for the info. I guess time will tell.

 

[Northern Light]

I think it is likely that any R/L north will follow Don Mills for a host of reasons.

But rather than get into that, let me simply say, R/L North ranks below Sheppard and below Eglinton West to Pearson in the pecking order. (as confirmed by I/Os latest market update)

Its not even in the remotest stage of planning at this juncture.

No announcement on same will be forthcoming for several years.

Given that, and how much can change in that time, I think any conjecture is premature.

 

[toronto647]

I think it is likely that any R/L north will follow Don Mills for a host of reasons.

But rather than get into that, let me simply say, R/L North ranks below Sheppard and below Eglinton West to Pearson in the pecking order. (as confirmed by I/Os latest market update)

Its not even in the remotest stage of planning at this juncture.

No announcement on same will be forthcoming for several years.

Give that, and how much can change in that time, I think any conjecture is premature.

Agreed with you. Sheppard East extension & EGW to Pearson will have financial close before the next election. That we can confirm.

However, would you say R/L N or OLNE (whatever you want to call it) will be on a market update by lets say end of the decade? or when would you think some serious thought will be given to it by the province/Metrolinx?

 

[Northern Light]

Agreed with you. Sheppard East extension & EGW to Pearson will have financial close before the next election. That we can confirm.

However, would you say R/L N or OLNE (whatever you want to call it) will be on a market update by lets say end of the decade? or when would you think some serious thought will be given to it by the province/Metrolinx?

I think that depends on a few things.

1) How much of Sheppard do they attempt to build at once, and what yard solution do they use. The issue here is $$$. A full build out of Sheppard would suck up a lot of money, and limit what else can go in the pipeline hopper.

2) Where do some of the smaller priorities end up fitting. For instance, the Line 2 extension. As discussed in the dedicated thread for that project, the case for going to Sherway in the near term isn't strong, but the case for going to East Mall is strong. There's also the question of building out Obico. Big project.

3) Likewise, I expect 2WAD to Milton to be a priority project; and can confirm the thinking inside the MTO is that ION phase 3 2 is in the list for this decade as well.

So I think that will all play into things.

I think pre-planning (high level concept) will need to be looked at later in the decade, if only to get a ballpark cost and implement some proactive 'H' by-laws to reserve space etc.

 

[Bureaucromancer]

ION phase 3

Do you mean 2, or actually that King / Univervsity / Erb and or Victoria Highland stuff that’s floating around in the Regional transportation documents as a stage 3?

 

[Northern Light]

Do you mean 2, or actually that King / Univervsity / Erb and or Victoria Highland stuff that’s floating around in the Regional transportation documents as a stage 3?

My bad, I meant 2. I will make a note.