Ontario Line North of Eglinton (was Relief Line North) (Speculation)

[rbt]

Personally I'll never understand the desire for a loop line in Toronto.

At one time it was believed a loop could allow higher frequencies than turn-backs. Train automation and triple-tracked terminal stations achieve similar results without the downsides of a loop (they're very hard to redistribute trains after an operational issue causes a backup).

 

[44 North]

Why have a loop when we could have a spiral lolol. Had the idea today and just wanted to sketch it out. It's the province's fantasy loop, but with OL continuing up Weston Sub > Barrie Sub > then Belt Line reactivation cuz why not. Go from YYZ to Union while circumnavigating the city. Twice.

 

[TossYourJacket]

Why have a loop when we could have a spiral lolol. Had the idea today and just wanted to sketch it out. It's the province's fantasy loop, but with OL continuing up Weston Sub > Barrie Sub > then Belt Line reactivation cuz why not. Go from YYZ to Union while circumnavigating the city. Twice.

View attachment 385015

Better than the stupid "loop" idea the government has, tbh. I just hate this whole "loop" idea so much. Why do we need 2 N-S subways (and a GO train) to Richmond Hill Centre? How is it the second most important place in the GTA aside from downtown Toronto?

 

[ARG1]

Better than the stupid "loop" idea the government has, tbh. I just hate this whole "loop" idea so much. Why do we need 2 N-S subways (and a GO train) to Richmond Hill Centre? How is it the second most important place in the GTA aside from downtown Toronto?

They want to turn it into a massive downtown Hub, a sort of "Union Station North" if you will.

 

[TRONto]

Better than the stupid "loop" idea the government has, tbh. I just hate this whole "loop" idea so much. Why do we need 2 N-S subways (and a GO train) to Richmond Hill Centre? How is it the second most important place in the GTA aside from downtown Toronto?

If those 80 storey towers end up happening it might be needed

 

[EnviroTO]

The idea of the loop is to have a higher order transit that connects many of the "centres". Downtown Toronto, Etobicoke Centre, Toronto Airport, Vaughan Centre, Richmond Hill Centre, Markham Centre, and to create connections between GO RER and urban transit lines without all roads leading to the Yonge Line, Union Station, or a few other choke points.

 

[toronto647]

The idea of the loop is to have a higher order transit that connects many of the "centres". Downtown Toronto, Etobicoke Centre, Toronto Airport, Vaughan Centre, Richmond Hill Centre, Markham Centre, and to create connections between GO RER and urban transit lines without all roads leading to the Yonge Line, Union Station, or a few other choke points.

View attachment 385101

Is this the exact loop path or at least close to it per what the province released?

 

[EnviroTO]

Is this the exact loop path or at least close to it per what the province released?

No. It hits all the key nodes the province is talking about and adds Markham Centre. This routing is more of a traditional urban metro routing where intermediate stops between key nodes are put in walkable locations directly next to transit oriented developments. Stops for The East Mall, The West Mall, International Centre / Malton GO, many hotels along the route, puts the town centre of Woodbridge within a walkable distance, walkable distance to all the density on Highway 7, Promenade Mall, the offices around Commerce Valley / Beaver Creek, McNabb and Warden, Victoria Park and Steeles, York Mills and Lesmill, and serves two Seneca College campuses. The goal of an urban metro is to try and make more trips possible without connecting to buses or walking a distance that would be burdensome or inconvenient, especially in inclement weather.

The provincial dotted lines completely follow 427 and 407 from Dundas in the east to Leslie in the west. It overlaps with the 407 transitway route from 427 to Leslie and I'm not sure how an Ontario Line using rail could co-exist with a busway that runs Burlington -> Mississauga Centre -> Pearson -> Vaughan Centre -> Richmond Hill Centre -> Markham Centre -> Oshawa route. Based on that I would guess the idea is to convert the 403-407-412 busway to a rail based operation. Being completely in the freeway ROW this East-West Cross-Regional Connection would be fairly affordable to build (no tunneling and limited expropriation) and still has the benefit of connecting Aldershot GO, Mississauga Centre, Pearson, Highway 407 station (Vaughan Centre), Bridge Station (Richmond Hill Centre), Unionville GO (Markham Centre), Locust Hill (mentioned by name in the plan so I'm guessing with a GO or VIA HFR station), Whitby GO, and Oshawa GO. Such a route is more suited to be regional rail than urban metro because it is longer distance and not focused on supporting local density. While urban metro and RER type services are both rail transit, the goals and therefore proper station locations and station spacing should be different. I'm not saying they shouldn't build this RER line, but an Ontario Line built as an urban metro replaces the Highway 7 BRT, whereas a 407 RER does not. Ontario Line technology and frequency does not necessarily make a good 407 RER / cross-regional connection either.

If the goal is build the metro I would work on implementing Ontario Line extensions to Pearson and Markham Centre (Unionville) in the shorter term, and implement the East-West Cross-Regional Connection. If the capacity or performance of VIVA Orange or Purple are limiting, then close the loop on the Ontario Line.

 

[MrGoose]

People fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of a loop line, when they try to shove one into Toronto.

A loop line is supposed to be a circumferential line allowing commuters who aren’t headed downtown to bypass crowded radial lines.

A circumferential line in Toronto would be an arc, unless you consider going under Lake Ontario to be a wise use of public funds.

 

[innsertnamehere]

A loop line running from Toronto to Hamilton to St Catharines then under the lake back to Toronto! Now that's an Idea!

I'll just file it beside my files on a Russia-Alaska Bridge, London-NYC High Speed Rail Tunnel, and Teleportation device ideas..

 

[afransen]

People fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of a loop line, when they try to shove one into Toronto.

A loop line is supposed to be a circumferential line allowing commuters who aren’t headed downtown to bypass crowded radial lines.

A circumferential line in Toronto would be an arc, unless you consider going under Lake Ontario to be a wise use of public funds.

I guess a loop line in Toronto could be a double-circumferential loop (two arcs across the city at different distances from the core connected along the lakeshore). Going under the lake would be crazy and pointless. Though I understand that the value of loop lines is diminished with modern automated train operation.

 

[Abdullah77]

I guess a loop line in Toronto could be a double-circumferential loop (two arcs across the city at different distances from the core connected along the lakeshore). Going under the lake would be crazy and pointless. Though I understand that the value of loop lines is diminished with modern automated train operation.

Line 4 could play this role if its pulled west to Pearson and beyond, and east to Guildwood or Rouge Hill stations.

 

[toronto647]

With how quick Ford's plans are coming to life.. I think we can see this line extend to Finch (Seneca College) by 2035 if it is completely elevated. Don't see any reason why this cannot be achieved.

 

[11th]

They only need to elevate it to just north of Lawrence. Then the line can be done with very low budget using the rail ROW Metrolinx owns (Don Mills-Lawrence > Lesmill > Leslie > Finch East > along hydro corridor? Seneca).
It's not the most ideal route for everyone because Don Mills will not be the interchange station, but..
This avoids the need to dig up the Don Mills/Sheppard intersection. Also no construction required over one of the worst chokepoint on the 401. All of that will speed up delivery and lower the cost.

 

[toronto647]

They only need to elevate it to just north of Lawrence. Then the line can be done with very low budget using the rail ROW Metrolinx owns (Don Mills-Lawrence > Lesmill > Leslie > Finch East > along hydro corridor? Seneca).
It's not the most ideal route for everyone because Don Mills will not be the interchange station, but..

This needs to be on Don Mills in my opinion to churn up development and make it more accessible. Also Metrolinx has previously come out and supported an alignment on Don Mills Road. Lets not forget Don Mills and Sheppard is the end of the Sheppard subway so anything east would not make sense unless they are planning to extend the Sheppard line forsure in the near future.