Ontario Line North of Eglinton (was Relief Line North) (Speculation)

[Leo_Chan]

Line in the sand. RL open - Don Mills to Osgoode City Hall. 2025.
Note to project manager. Just do it.

Just do it as in dumping billions of dollars into it as effectively as possible, or do it in any means necessary even national suicide ways?

 

[TransitBart]

Just do it as in dumping billions of dollars into it as effectively as possible, or do it in any means necessary even national suicide ways?

It is neither capacity nor technical issues which drag a project out. Lack of focus, funding, and political interference and prevarication and sometimes poor planning and management are largely the causes. If there is a clear consensus and the government of the day says 'GO' and then lets a competent management team deliver the result, then we'd all be amazed at how quickly things can come together.

 

[Kitsune]

The boards are finally online.... http://www.relieflinenorth.ca/public-meetings-round-1-display-boards/

Board 7 has this interesting bullet point:

• Ability to accommodate a Maintenance and Storage Facility (MSF) for vehicles

That explains the Wye now. I think that also shows an inclination to Don Mills, or Don Mills to Eglinton to Victoria Park.

 

[treplow]

This is how any new line should be built. Plan the whole thing out, build it in stages and open it in stages, but have construction never actually stop, just moved to the next stage.

Basically how Ottawa is building their "light metro".

 

[W. K. Lis]

Looks like the Relief Line North is still a long way off before we see any Environmental Assessment.

 

[Kitsune]

... where does that comment come from ? The project is still on time, with the next meetings late this year or early next year with the tpap starting in 2020. We'll only be able to gauge timelines when meetings are due and if they push back those dates.

 

[micheal_can]

Looks like the Relief Line North is still a long way off before we see any Environmental Assessment.

I would assume that it would be done once shovels are in the ground for DRL South.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From the Environmental Assessment for the Relief Line South (see link):

Tunnel Drives

Drives 1 and 2 starting at Launch Shaft 1 and heading towards the west would extend to the intersection of Queen and James Streets. The proposed drives have a distance of approximately 2,500 m with TBMs being extracted at the proposed Queen Station.
Drives 3 & 4 start at Launch Shaft 2 and head east along Eastern Avenue, before turning northwards following Carlaw and Pape Avenues. The drives would extend approximately 2,920 m with the TBMs being extracted at the proposed Pape Station.

Extraction Shafts

TBM extraction shafts are incorporated within the proposed subway station boxes where possible for cost and schedule savings. If locating an extraction shaft within the proposed subway station boxes is not possible, then the extraction shafts are incorporated within the footprints of other cut and cover locations if available.

Extraction shafts for the main tunnel drives for the alignment are proposed within the right-of-way of Queen Street West just west of Yonge Street and within the Pape Avenue right-of-way just south of Danforth Avenue. Extraction shafts for the wye track drives are proposed at the two locations where the track connects with Line 2 near Logan Avenue and Woodycrest Avenue.

If the Environmental Assessment for the Relief Line North could be completed and approved in time, the TBM's could continue digging north until the Don River Valley for extraction.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

From the Environmental Assessment for the Relief Line South (see link):

If the Environmental Assessment for the Relief Line North could be completed and approved in time, the TBM's could continue digging north until the Don River Valley for extraction.

I just don't know why the Scope of Relief Line South wasn't extended to the Don Valley.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I just don't know why the Scope of Relief Line South wasn't extended to the Don Valley.

The tunnel itself is going to already go most of the way there as a part of phase 1 - just no stations north of The Danforth. The tunnel will end north of Mortimer Avenue, almost 900 metres north of The Danforth.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The tunnel itself is going to already go most of the way there as a part of phase 1 - just no stations north of The Danforth. The tunnel will end north of Mortimer Avenue, almost 900 metres north of The Danforth.

Removed from the appendix 3-3 of the Relief Line South EA.

Screenshot from openstreetmap.org via link.

 

[nfitz]

The tunnel itself is going to already go most of the way there as a part of phase 1 - just no stations north of The Danforth. The tunnel will end north of Mortimer Avenue, almost 900 metres north of The Danforth.

That's true, and it's all planned as cut-and-cover so that they can have the new station, crossover, and the middle storage track. That's 850 metres of cut-and-cover from just north of Danforth (south of Lipton) to Westwood (one block north of Mortimer).

All six currently proposed alignments north of Danforth include a station "in the vicinity of Pape and Mortimer/ Cosburn/ O’Connor". Presumably then it must continue to be cut-and-cover for at least 300 more metres to Cosburn.

If the Environmental Assessment for the Relief Line North could be completed and approved in time, the TBM's could continue digging north until the Don River Valley for extraction.

With over a kilometre of cut-and-cover planned north of Danforth already, they wouldn't continue digging with the TBMs even if the entire line is started at once!

The big question is how the Don River will be crossed. Bridge (like on Line 2 and Line 4)? Tunnel (gosh, that would be deep)? If they go with a bridge, there's probably no point using any TBM on the Relief Line North until you are near Overlea!

 

[innsertnamehere]

Honestly they could probably do the entire line from Danforth to Eglinton cut and cover. You would need another bridge between Flemingdon and Thorncliffe Park, and both Don Mills and Overlea are very wide boulevards that could probably see traffic shifted over with low impacts to tunnel the two stretches between the bridges.

 

[Streety McCarface]

It wouldn't even be a good idea for it to be tunneled north of Danforth, the only logical reason it would be is because of noise and vibration complaints. Even then, I would think the City would start zoning Pape north of Danforth for Mixed Use Development given an eventual need for density along RLN.

 

[JSF-1]

Tunnel (gosh, that would be deep)?

I don't even think it would be physically possible to run the line under the Don Valley. The distance from the future Mortimer/Cosburn station to the valley is at most just over a kilometer and iirc the TTC says its maximum grade for its trains is something like 3% so is it even possible to drop that much altitude in what is at most a kilometer? We aren't using rubber tire or LIM for the line so we are pretty hamstrung on this. Of course there is also the absurd cost of tunneling that deep for what is in this case literally no reason.

EDIT: as well bridging the valley would allow the RLN to be shallower which has obvious cost and construction benefits. Can you imagine if the BD was planned to be built under the Don. There probably wouldn't be a BD since the tunneling alone would have eaten nearly the entire budget.