Ontario Line North of Eglinton (was Relief Line North) (Speculation)

[BurlOak]

Using the Transit City SRT plan as a guide, how about an on-street LRT that goes from Thorncliffe to Flemindon to Science Centre Station.?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Looking at the timelines for the Relief Line North and South, it seems that City Planning has accelerated Relief Line North planning, such that both phases will be ready for construction at the same time. It will take the Relief Line North just two years to go from project initiation to TPAP, whereas it took the Relief Line South five years to do the same. Relief Line North will be completing it's TPAP just as Relief Line South is in the "project design" phase (the phase immediately after TPAP). This can't be a coincidence. If all goes according to plan, South and North should be built as one big megaproject.

 

[sixrings]

But we have to build sheppard first. Respect for scarborough the net it destination.

 

[gweed123]

Looking at the timelines for the Relief Line North and South, it seems that City Planning has accelerated Relief Line North planning, such that both phases will be ready for construction at the same time. It will take the Relief Line North just two years to go from project initiation to TPAP, whereas it took the Relief Line South five years to do the same. Relief Line North will be completing it's TPAP just as Relief Line South is in the "project design" phase (the phase immediately after TPAP). This can't be a coincidence. If all goes according to plan, South and North should be built as one big megaproject.

Good find! I guess this begs the question: are they speeding up the RLN to coincide with RLS, or are they slowing down RLS so that it coincides with RLN? Or is it a little from Column A, a little from Column B?

 

[pman]

But we have to build sheppard first. Respect for scarborough the net it destination.

The other possibility is that a Ford government would build RL north but not RL south. Because, you know, downtown...

 

[Leo_Chan]

The other possibility is that a Ford government would build RL north but not RL south. Because, you know, downtown...

That's the most tragic idea I have ever heard. Pape would be a dumping ground (more than just RLS would). This does make me think about the Jane LRT terminating at Bloor/Jane, which would be a problem is the RLWest doesn't interchange with it. At least that would be LRT -> Subway -> Subway instead of Subway -> Subway -> Streetcar (Broadview).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Good find! I guess this begs the question: are they speeding up the RLN to coincide with RLS, or are they slowing down RLS so that it coincides with RLN? Or is it a little from Column A, a little from Column B?

A little bit of both. I've been really critical of City Planning lately, because 7 years to bring RLS from TPAP to construction seems completely inexcusable, but they seem to have done that to ensure that it remains in-sync with the RLN schedule. On the other hand, RLN will be going from proposal to TPAP in just two years. Two years to go from proposal to TPAP in just two years is unprecedented for a project of this scale. It took the Eglinton Crosstown, a project of similar size and complexity, 3 to 4 years to do the same. So there is little doubt in my mind that City staff have rejigged the schedules to bring them in sync with one another

However, I still do find the 2025 construction start for the combined Relief Line North + South to be questionable. With the North TPAP finished in 2020, that allows them five years of project design before starting construction. I feel that the project design and construction start shouldn't take more than two or three years. It took just 1.5 years for the Crosstown to begin construction (after completion of the TPAP), and that was with the Ford-era nonsense potentially impacting the constuction schedule. I will be really disappointed if there has been zero construction work five years after the TPAP completion. And note that project design doesn't necessarily have to be completed for construction to begin; the Crosstown didn't have much more than the tunnel design completed when it began construction (in fact, the station designs still might not be finalized today). The only way I can justify the delay between TPAP completion and construction start is if City Staff, for whatever reason, believe that there will be significant difficulty in securing funding for construction. It might be wishful thinking, but if City Hall is able to quickly secure funding, we might see the combined Relief Line South + North under construction by 2023 (coinciding with the next election cycles)

 

[Leo_Chan]

A little bit of both. I've been really critical of City Planning lately, because 7 years to bring RLS from TPAP to construction seems completely inexcusable, but they seem to have done that to ensure that it remains in-sync with the RLN schedule. On the other hand, RLN will be going from proposal to TPAP in just two years. Two years to go from proposal to TPAP in just two years is unprecedented for a project of this scale. It took the Eglinton Crosstown, a project of similar size and complexity, 3 to 4 years to do the same. So there is little doubt in my mind that City staff have rejigged the schedules to bring them in sync with one another

However, I still do find the 2025 construction start for the combined Relief Line North + South to be questionable. With the North TPAP finished in 2020, that allows them five years of project design before starting construction. I feel that the project design and construction start shouldn't take more than two or three years. It took just 1.5 years for the Crosstown to begin construction (after completion of the TPAP), and that was with the Ford-era nonsense potentially impacting the constuction schedule. I will be really disappointed if there has been zero construction work five years after the TPAP completion. And note that project design doesn't necessarily have to be completed for construction to begin; the Crosstown didn't have much more than the tunnel design completed when it began construction (in fact, the station designs still might not be finalized today). The only way I can justify the delay between TPAP completion and construction start is if City Staff, for whatever reason, believe that there will be significant difficulty in securing funding for construction. It might be wishful thinking, but if City Hall is able to quickly secure funding, we might see the combined Relief Line South + North under construction by 2023 (coinciding with the next election cycles)

Would it make sense to open the Relief Line South + North in stages, while construction continues without stopping? Relief Line South > Relief Line North (Eglinton) > Relief Line North (Sheppard). Then if one station takes longer than the others **cough** Finch West **cough**, then it would have less of an impact?

 

[JSF-1]

Well that's how the BD was done. Opened Keele to Woodbine while the extensions to Warden and Islington were under construction.

 

[micheal_can]

Well that's how the BD was done. Opened Keele to Woodbine while the extensions to Warden and Islington were under construction.

This is how any new line should be built. Plan the whole thing out, build it in stages and open it in stages, but have construction never actually stop, just moved to the next stage.

 

[WislaHD]

Looking at the timelines for the Relief Line North and South, it seems that City Planning has accelerated Relief Line North planning, such that both phases will be ready for construction at the same time. It will take the Relief Line North just two years to go from project initiation to TPAP, whereas it took the Relief Line South five years to do the same. Relief Line North will be completing it's TPAP just as Relief Line South is in the "project design" phase (the phase immediately after TPAP). This can't be a coincidence. If all goes according to plan, South and North should be built as one big megaproject.

Nice find.

It also makes sense then how the RLS tunnel is extended quite a bit ways past Bloor.

A little bit of both. I've been really critical of City Planning lately, because 7 years to bring RLS from TPAP to construction seems completely inexcusable, but they seem to have done that to ensure that it remains in-sync with the RLN schedule. On the other hand, RLN will be going from proposal to TPAP in just two years. Two years to go from proposal to TPAP in just two years is unprecedented for a project of this scale. It took the Eglinton Crosstown, a project of similar size and complexity, 3 to 4 years to do the same. So there is little doubt in my mind that City staff have rejigged the schedules to bring them in sync with one another

At the same time however, a subway under Don Mills seems like an incredibly straight-forward subway line to build. Not many utilities in the way. Only barrier really is connecting it to RLS.

 

[Streety McCarface]

A little bit of both. I've been really critical of City Planning lately, because 7 years to bring RLS from TPAP to construction seems completely inexcusable, but they seem to have done that to ensure that it remains in-sync with the RLN schedule. On the other hand, RLN will be going from proposal to TPAP in just two years. Two years to go from proposal to TPAP in just two years is unprecedented for a project of this scale. It took the Eglinton Crosstown, a project of similar size and complexity, 3 to 4 years to do the same. So there is little doubt in my mind that City staff have rejigged the schedules to bring them in sync with one another

However, I still do find the 2025 construction start for the combined Relief Line North + South to be questionable. With the North TPAP finished in 2020, that allows them five years of project design before starting construction. I feel that the project design and construction start shouldn't take more than two or three years. It took just 1.5 years for the Crosstown to begin construction (after completion of the TPAP), and that was with the Ford-era nonsense potentially impacting the constuction schedule. I will be really disappointed if there has been zero construction work five years after the TPAP completion. And note that project design doesn't necessarily have to be completed for construction to begin; the Crosstown didn't have much more than the tunnel design completed when it began construction (in fact, the station designs still might not be finalized today). The only way I can justify the delay between TPAP completion and construction start is if City Staff, for whatever reason, believe that there will be significant difficulty in securing funding for construction. It might be wishful thinking, but if City Hall is able to quickly secure funding, we might see the combined Relief Line South + North under construction by 2023 (coinciding with the next election cycles)

To be fair, RLS is the most complex project this city has ever undertaken. Considering there's so much at stake there, I can understand the longer schedule.

 

[mdrejhon]

Two years to go from proposal to TPAP in just two years is unprecedented for a project of this scale.

Pinch me, I am dreaming.

 

[TransitBart]

The other possibility is that a Ford government would build RL north but not RL south. Because, you know, downtown...

Let’s get a grip.

 

[TransitBart]

A little bit of both. I've been really critical of City Planning lately, because 7 years to bring RLS from TPAP to construction seems completely inexcusable, but they seem to have done that to ensure that it remains in-sync with the RLN schedule. On the other hand, RLN will be going from proposal to TPAP in just two years. Two years to go from proposal to TPAP in just two years is unprecedented for a project of this scale. It took the Eglinton Crosstown, a project of similar size and complexity, 3 to 4 years to do the same. So there is little doubt in my mind that City staff have rejigged the schedules to bring them in sync with one another

However, I still do find the 2025 construction start for the combined Relief Line North + South to be questionable. With the North TPAP finished in 2020, that allows them five years of project design before starting construction. I feel that the project design and construction start shouldn't take more than two or three years. It took just 1.5 years for the Crosstown to begin construction (after completion of the TPAP), and that was with the Ford-era nonsense potentially impacting the constuction schedule. I will be really disappointed if there has been zero construction work five years after the TPAP completion. And note that project design doesn't necessarily have to be completed for construction to begin; the Crosstown didn't have much more than the tunnel design completed when it began construction (in fact, the station designs still might not be finalized today). The only way I can justify the delay between TPAP completion and construction start is if City Staff, for whatever reason, believe that there will be significant difficulty in securing funding for construction. It might be wishful thinking, but if City Hall is able to quickly secure funding, we might see the combined Relief Line South + North under construction by 2023 (coinciding with the next election cycles)

Line in the sand. RL open - Don Mills to Osgoode City Hall. 2025.
Note to project manager. Just do it.